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by MaggieMae on 22 February 2010 - 21:02
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by Donald Deluxe on 22 February 2010 - 21:02
"So do you condone the way animals are treated in China or are you against it."
I am vehemently against the way some animals are treated in China by some people, just as I am also vehemently against the way some animals are treated in the U.S. by some people (anyone remember the thread on the Colorado dog-dragging incident in the National Forest? And how about our own messageboard participant Tim Helser?).
I am also vehemently against the way the Chinese government deprives its citizens of their right to own and enjoy their property, including animals, without due process of law. I also realize that the Chinese government is a totalitarian entity that has near-complete control over every activity of its citizens, who are generally helpless to resist.
"Culture , government, what ever."
This is where I cannot agree - the distinction between "culture" and "government" is substantial and not a "whatever."
I am vehemently against the way some animals are treated in China by some people, just as I am also vehemently against the way some animals are treated in the U.S. by some people (anyone remember the thread on the Colorado dog-dragging incident in the National Forest? And how about our own messageboard participant Tim Helser?).
I am also vehemently against the way the Chinese government deprives its citizens of their right to own and enjoy their property, including animals, without due process of law. I also realize that the Chinese government is a totalitarian entity that has near-complete control over every activity of its citizens, who are generally helpless to resist.
"Culture , government, what ever."
This is where I cannot agree - the distinction between "culture" and "government" is substantial and not a "whatever."
by FHTracker on 22 February 2010 - 21:02
No, Maggie. I'm not spinning like anything. Hans asked a question and I gave answer.
Cruelty is cruelty whether done to human, animal, sealife .. maybe not cockroaches but they're pretty good at taking care of themselves but anyway, this world is full of cruelty and inhumanity. Sometimes there are moments of humanity but otherwise, it's pretty bleak.
Sunsilver, I'm trying to remember, didn't the Bejing situation and highlights help get more rabies vaccine to the proviences so that there was at least a cut back on the number of government orders that all dogs, stray or family pet, had to be destroyed?
We always hear about the problem but the steps taken that actually do good seem to get lost beneath the fold.
Cruelty is cruelty whether done to human, animal, sealife .. maybe not cockroaches but they're pretty good at taking care of themselves but anyway, this world is full of cruelty and inhumanity. Sometimes there are moments of humanity but otherwise, it's pretty bleak.
Sunsilver, I'm trying to remember, didn't the Bejing situation and highlights help get more rabies vaccine to the proviences so that there was at least a cut back on the number of government orders that all dogs, stray or family pet, had to be destroyed?
We always hear about the problem but the steps taken that actually do good seem to get lost beneath the fold.
by Brandi on 22 February 2010 - 21:02
Prager wote:
Look the reality in the eys. What are you afraid of?
Prager,
I am looking the reality in the eyes and I'm not afraid of anything. But thank you for asking.
Look the reality in the eys. What are you afraid of?
Prager,
I am looking the reality in the eyes and I'm not afraid of anything. But thank you for asking.
by Sunsilver on 22 February 2010 - 21:02
I'm not familiar with the details of the rabies outbreak. Sorry.
by MaggieMae on 22 February 2010 - 21:02
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by FHTracker on 22 February 2010 - 21:02
Yeah there was a cull in June 2009 that was widely condeemed. Here is a link to a protest petition about the killings in Hanzhong.
Animals Asia Foundation.
Then this is a statement from Medscape, discussing the rabies outbreaks in China but also pointing out at the bottom that indiscrimenant killing however it's carried out does no real good.
Then these look like a really good website to watch and get information on how to donate and help.
Rabies in the news
And this one link backs up to the medscape report about the importance of vaccination campaigns as pushed for by World Rabies Day.
I like the look of the World Rabies Day org, especially if they're helping to push for the vaccine campaigns.
Animals Asia Foundation.
Then this is a statement from Medscape, discussing the rabies outbreaks in China but also pointing out at the bottom that indiscrimenant killing however it's carried out does no real good.
Then these look like a really good website to watch and get information on how to donate and help.
Rabies in the news
And this one link backs up to the medscape report about the importance of vaccination campaigns as pushed for by World Rabies Day.
I like the look of the World Rabies Day org, especially if they're helping to push for the vaccine campaigns.
by Donald Deluxe on 22 February 2010 - 22:02
If I remember correctly, the first rabies outbreak occurred three or four years ago. Many of China's cities have a huge loose/feral dog problem. The rabies outbreak in that canine population resulted in hundreds of human deaths, and many Chinese cities responded by killing any loose dog they found.
And in a police state where the police aren't responsible to the citizenry but rather the Party, naturally there were some ugly incidents where people walking their dogs on leash had their dogs seized and executed right in front of them. Whether these incidents were specific score-settling by unfettered cops against individuals they did not like or just random abuses of power, I do not know.
But I do know that the people here who were saying "Don't sell VA dogs to China!" at the time clearly didn't understand that even in a police state, there are people whose wealth and power put them beyond the reach of the average policeman on the street, and that those with the resources and connections to import valuable dogs didn't have to worry about some police corporal grabbing and shooting their dogs.
And in a police state where the police aren't responsible to the citizenry but rather the Party, naturally there were some ugly incidents where people walking their dogs on leash had their dogs seized and executed right in front of them. Whether these incidents were specific score-settling by unfettered cops against individuals they did not like or just random abuses of power, I do not know.
But I do know that the people here who were saying "Don't sell VA dogs to China!" at the time clearly didn't understand that even in a police state, there are people whose wealth and power put them beyond the reach of the average policeman on the street, and that those with the resources and connections to import valuable dogs didn't have to worry about some police corporal grabbing and shooting their dogs.
by Prager on 22 February 2010 - 22:02
Brandi
I am not trying to attack you. And I am sure that you are very brave. It was just a figure of speach.
Donald Deluxe
I am not saying that culture and government are the same thing. I meant to ask you a question regardless of if this is an issue of culture or government. Sorry for not making it clearer.
FHTracker
We can't even clean up our own animal overpopulation and abuse situations here in the US, why the hell are we running our mouths about what is done in other countries?
We can do both!!!!! I am sure of that. We do not need to just selfishly limit our effort to USA.
Look the difference is that we are trying to clean it up here where in Communist China government is ordering to do this. Lowering the population of the pets by clubbing them in the streets. It needs to be periodically revisited. That does put pressure on the governments. There are many ways to do this. Someone writes Black beauty and someone shoves in the world's face offensive picture. And if the culture gets offended maybe they will try to change their government. I lived in the communism. So I know what the bastards makes tick. It is a fear of loosing power.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
I am not trying to attack you. And I am sure that you are very brave. It was just a figure of speach.
Donald Deluxe
I am not saying that culture and government are the same thing. I meant to ask you a question regardless of if this is an issue of culture or government. Sorry for not making it clearer.
FHTracker
We can't even clean up our own animal overpopulation and abuse situations here in the US, why the hell are we running our mouths about what is done in other countries?
We can do both!!!!! I am sure of that. We do not need to just selfishly limit our effort to USA.
Look the difference is that we are trying to clean it up here where in Communist China government is ordering to do this. Lowering the population of the pets by clubbing them in the streets. It needs to be periodically revisited. That does put pressure on the governments. There are many ways to do this. Someone writes Black beauty and someone shoves in the world's face offensive picture. And if the culture gets offended maybe they will try to change their government. I lived in the communism. So I know what the bastards makes tick. It is a fear of loosing power.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
by Donald Deluxe on 22 February 2010 - 22:02
"I am not saying that culture and government are the same thing. I meant to ask you a question regardless of if this is an issue of culture or government. Sorry for not making it clearer."
After spending time under Communist rule, you know the difference better than anyone else in this conversation and have no need to apologize. My reiterating the distinction between government and culture in my response to your post was for the benefit of the third-party idiot with the "B" on her forehead who put the issue on the table initially, and who seemed to think you supported her position.
After spending time under Communist rule, you know the difference better than anyone else in this conversation and have no need to apologize. My reiterating the distinction between government and culture in my response to your post was for the benefit of the third-party idiot with the "B" on her forehead who put the issue on the table initially, and who seemed to think you supported her position.
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