Curious why so many embrace the DM DNA test? - Page 6

----> WHY this in-fighting, though? 

Because politics is playing a role- a HUGE role, in who gets the research money,
and people dont have enough knowledge about DM to see this test for what it is, in relation to GSDS. Its the Emperor's New Clothes. No one who truly loves the breed, who has a thorough knowledge of DM would be shelling out bucks for a test that does our breed no good- they would be fighting like hell, just as I am, to see that research money benefit our breed- not another breed, not another's ego, not supporting outrageous claims, not supporting an automatic clear of progeny from two GSDS declared *clear* via this OFA test, when years of generational follow up have not been done and they have knowledge of a clear dog found to have DM upon necropsy. Its just HS! Why the hell would anyone with knowledge of DM support a test that says GSDM is ALS when it very clearly, is not- not even close????

Marjorie
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry
BE PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group  

Oh, and some history..

years ago Dr Coates believed that DM was a muscular disease brought about by gastrointestinal problems for which methionine would be the golden fleece. Of course, her research showed that was not the case- that was the research in which she only dx 3 out of 12 GSDS correctly, with DM upon necropsy. Not only was DM not a muscular disease, too much methionine is actually harmful to dogs. So- that was scenario one

now we move to present day.... DM is now a motor neuron disease, according to her, and it is ALS. never mind that the etiology doesnt match, the diagnstics dont match and the presentation of the diseases are  polar opposites. Now, on the ofa site, under explanation of test results, it is suddenly being acknowledged that perhaps DM is not caused by the same things in different breeds.

I wonder what the next scenario will be- I wonder if it could be caused by the Gamma Rays in the Man in the Moon Marigolds... We shall see.... At this point, nothing would surprise me...

If that is the case Marjorie, is there a non-profit organization whose mission is in-line with yours? Simply understood by me as, researching the cause to find the cure for GSDM?    Do you know of other Vet Universities who have ongoing DM research as well that tie more closely with your findings?

Marj, somehow I think that implying that any and all who don't subscribe to the DM/MS line of thinking are stupid and not concerned about the best interests of the breed, may not be the best approach to soliciting any sort of support for Clemmons et al? You have said more than once  you are not out to make friends and I get it, but honestly a little less argumentive attitude might benefit your cause in the long run.  Snide and demeaning remarks like - is that so hard for you to understand ....gamma rays.....people don't have enough knowledge to see this test for what it is...the Emperor's new clothes.....no one who knows anything about DM etc just doesn't get your entire message to the right people. Most don't read much past the second insult in any of your posts,  go on the defense and then cannibalistic in-fighting begins.

I and many I know are trying to do the right thing by DNA testing their breeding stock. We love the breed  and are concerned about the future every bit as much as you. There are quite a few people right here on this board who own dogs with active cases of DM. We would be your strongest ally I promise you if you would not always imply that we are incapable of understanding anything much beyond how to tie our own shoe laces.

" No one who truly loves the breed, who has a thorough knowledge of DM would be shelling out bucks for a test that does our breed no good- they would be fighting like hell, just as I am, to see that research money benefit our breed- not another breed, not another's ego, not supporting outrageous claims, not supporting an automatic clear of progeny from two GSDS declared *clear* via this OFA test, when years of generational follow up have not been done and they have knowledge of a clear dog found to have DM upon necropsy. Its just HS! Why the hell would anyone with knowledge of DM support a test that says GSDM is ALS when it very clearly, is not- not even close???? """"    


This is the attutude I am talking about, Marj. It's never your message....honestly.

Exactly, Blitzen. It is not too long ago or farfetched to think about the wasted energy and dollars caused by scientific misconduct. (NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU MARJORIE) It is just the reality of it that makes everyone else responsible for their own due diligence.

Which brings me to wonder as well, what are your research qualifications? Degrees? I don't recall having heard this before, so sorry-- if you will be repeating yourself. You do not take the title, "Dr.", is all I know, really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy

OK, I do believe that GDs's get a different type of DM. But what about the Berner's, the Swiss Moutain Bernese? 2 carriers and 1 clear in that breed. Dr. Coates has said she is aware there is another gene involved in that breed. Of course has not isolated it yet. The disease is not just GSD's, corgis and boxers. It is Rhodesian Ridgebacks, Chesapeak Bay Retrievers, Aussies, GSD's, corgis, boxers, irish setters, and I a terrier that slips my mind. What gets me is each of the dogs/ breeds have different DNA to make that breed. How they are all being lumped into a disease like ALS is just strange. One day it may be that each breed has some form of DM, and a few may have ALS like syptoms. But certainly not all. The fact that Dr. Coates is going back to drawing board for Berner's says she knows she doesn't have that breed right. The way I look at Dr. Clemmons is the way our Gov't treated P. Tesla. They destroyed his work time after time until he died. All along backing T. Edison because he was part of the "bloodline". Then the Gov't stole Tesla's work and kept it in secrecy. Now we have H.A.A.R.P., in Alaska, all because of Tesla and his genius. I am very against H.A.A.R.P. As would Tesla have been. But they made sure he was passed away before utilizing his findings. He was by far a greater scientist than Edison ever thought of being. I think this is similar case...."money talks, BS waks... Gwen

Lets leave the science of the diagnostic tests out and just look at the presentation of the disease. That is why it is so hard for me to imagine that anyone with a true knowledge of this disease would confuse the two- and that leads me to believe that people really are not thoroughly ecucated about DM, but rather parrot what the AKC spews. It is accepted because it is advertised and shoved down people's throats. A shitload of money is spent pushing these tests because they bring in a shitload of money- there are patents involved on procedures and dna strands. Its bigtime money!!! BIGTIME!!! Lets not forget the true AKC- they wanted to register puppies at pet stores, so please dont tell me they care about dogs. They see $$$$$$$$$ and thats all they see.


---ALS does not affect a person's ability to recognize touch."

---GSDM  you can pinch the foot of a dog with GSDM, hard, between the toes (most sesntive spot) and they wont feel it! 
     how can this be reconciled with ALS not affecting the ability to recognize touch?


---ALS Patients usually maintain control of bladder and bowel functions

---GSDM patients lose both bowel and bladder control


---Not all familial ALS cases are due to the SOD1 mutation, therefore other
unidentified genetic causes clearly exist." In fact, only 10-20% of people with familial ALS have a change to the SOD1 gene.. What about the other 80-90%? Only 2% of people with non familial ALS have a change to their SOD1.


----The parts of the body affected by early symptoms of ALS depend on which muscles in the body are damaged first 
    Some patients first see the effects of the disease on a hand or arm
    Other patients have difficulty chewing or swallowing 
  
---GSDM always progresses from the rear, moving towards the front of the body. Difficulty swallowing only comes after the patient is down, both rear and front and the brain stem begins to become affected.

Frankly, I cannot comprehend how people cannot comprehend this, thus my belief that most peopple do not really understand DM, or perhaps, they dont want to understand it and dont want to take the time to educate themselves. Its just easier to believe what the monied publicity just keeps on pumping out while they continue to rake in the $$$$$$$$$$.

Also, I would be interested to know if you have a case for support written, to give a presentation to prospective funders?

There is a very good discussion about DM on the germanshepherdhome.net breed board. I don't want to link the discsussion here, I think that's against the TOS, but I 'm sure a little surfing around that site will allow you to read it all. Marj has offered some very interesting points. I have to say I enjoyed reading them very much and wish we could intiate and maintain a more civil discourse here on this somber topic.

Blitzen: You can post a link and make it easy for us, too...lol... I don't want to sign up to have to figure it out.....



AND, Marjorie are you a qualified researcher?  I seem to have missed the answer to that?