Housing.. Vereinsboxen and Dog Carrier Kennels (Portable) - Page 9

I, too, crate my dog at night.  He likes his crate -- it is very large -- he can stand, turn around and stretch out to sleep.  There is a nice soft blanket in the crate, and a fan is on  close to the crate while he is sleeping.   Of course, I don't put water nor food in the crate.  He goes down for the night about 15 minutes after his dinner.   That certainly isn't abuse.   He is not in the crate during the day.

DDRDSH, this post is not about bashing you, it's intended to let you state your true opinion about your actions. If you want us to hear your true feelings about your past deeds, please answer the following questons honestly and directly without redirecting your response to another topic.

1.Were your facilties such that the dogs were housed in crates and allowed to remain in these crates that were contaminated with urine and feces?

2.Were the dogs in poor condition due to lack of proper food and water?

3. Did you not realize at anytime that you had more dogs then you could properly care for.If so what was the number of dogs in your possesion when this fact was apparent to you.

4. Did you continue to acquire more dogs and breed more litters when you knew you were overwhelmed with the dogs you already had?

5. Why did you not simply rehome some of these dogs when you knew things were out of hand, was it because you couldn't sell them and did not want to give them away?

6. Do you not think poor kennel help would have been better then no help at all?

7. How many dogs do you have in your possesion now, and are you breeding more puppies,if so what will you do with these puppies?

8. Do you feel any guilt or have any remorse for what happened with your dogs?

9. Do you not realize that you and your husband alone are responsible for what took place in this case.

I'm just trying to make sense of how this happened to you and your husband,answer these questions if you wish to, but if you do please answer in an honest straight forward manner without blaming others or making excuses for your actions

They are dogs, not people and anyone with a fundamental understanding of dog behavior knows that they live in dens, not in cages.

Seriously, this is the lamest excuse ever given by those who box their dogs. You show me a canine species that LIVE in underground tunnels and dens... LIVE IN THEM.  Not use them to whelp a litter. 

Not even wolves, supposedly the dog's closest relative "lives" in dens. They use them for whelping. And guess who is IN that den? The MOTHER... NOT THE PACK.  Simple, simple canine behavior.

Guess what those animals are doing all day?  Yup, they rest, they lounge about, and they also cover miles, and miles and miles of ground. They watch things, they play. They stretch, they do a million little things a dog in a box can't do.

DOGS ARE NOT UNDERGROUND DWELLING ANIMALS.  For Pete's sake!

I am not posting here to those who box their dogs. I post this because I think it is important that "newbies" see a different opinion. Many look to their breeders for advice. It is appalling that they are told that THE ONLY way to keep a young dog safe is to stick it in what is the equivelant of a sensory deprevation tank!   Nonsense!

In 50 years I've never had a dog stolen. It takes just a little thought and effort to build a safe enclosure.  To top it off, I can certainly show you ten "dog dies in house fire" clippings to every "dog stolen from locked kennel" clipping. That's a fact.

I won't change the mind of those who feel a dog can be locked in a box all day and generally all night (16 hours a day MINIMUM) and that is a good "quality of life".  These people (in my humble opinion) don't have a ton of empathy and will tell you "dogs don't feel like we do..."  Maybe their dogs don't - having been stunted emotionally?

I'm sorry, I am a bit angry, and will stop now and go cool off. But when I watch my young dogs all day, and see the amount of learning, interaction, play and just plain enjoyment they get out of each and every day, it just hurts to know that there are those who CHOOSE to box their dog/pup.  So sad.

Yes, many dogs enjoy sleeping or resting in crates. No doubt about that. And yes, a dog can certainly go without water or food for hours at a time. I would never argue that. But I will argue that a dog stuck out on a chain in a backyard is a luckier dog than one stuck in  a box in a garage or bedroom. At least that dog can poop, play, watch thing, and enjoy sun or shade (of course provided with decent dog house). The overly-crated dog is a sad, silent shame hidden in far too many homes.

Again, sorry to anger and not my intention; but I WILL speak up against the practice of using a shipping crate as primary housing for dogs anywhere.  

My emotionally stunted dog?





My dogs are, at the least, crated at night for a full 8 hours. Other than that, they definitely get more meaningful interaction than the average pet dog. I think it's irresponsible to let a dog run around all day, ignoring it, and think that this is a good life. Plenty of people think a back yard is "exercise". Perhaps I am misunderstanding this term "primary housing"? My dogs live in the house, but are crated when unsupervised.

Simply my opinion, but I don't think that my dogs are suffering in any way.

edited for grammar
edited because "cruel" is too strong a word

I do put my dogs in a crate, and at times a kennel, or a folding cage for specific purposes.

They need freedom of movement, sun light, fresh air, a breeze when they find the right spot, the freedom to move just for the hell of it, and not just a turn around. 
Sights and sounds, the movement of the world around them including other living creatures.
They need to be in the elements period.

It could never be irresponsible to let a dog just run around all day.
Ignoring it and not giving it any of your time is irresponsible and a form of abuse in my opinion.

How can my dog do what it's supposed to do if it's locked up?
How can it be my companion if it's not at my side?


I'll not tell another how to live or take care of their animals, everyone answers to someone sooner or later, but I would do something about abuse that I witness with my own eyes.

Dogs living in crates or cages is abuse.

Some people have too many dogs to be pet owners, and some people who do have a lot of dogs do not have the correct facilities to be a business.

Some people who do not respect animals should be held accountable for their deeds.

Moons.



 

Nice post, Moons.  You "get" it. 

Trying to say that allowing a dog to be loose in a safe environment is somehow "bad" is really, really reaching for it!  This is the rationalization necessary, I guess, to make it OK to store a dog in a box when not "playing" with them.  Of course crating at night is an option - that is NOT using a crate as "primary housing".  Neither is putting the dog in a crate while you run to the store or go to a movie.

What is cruel is expecting a dog to LIVE in a crate, day after day after day.  Like I said, alot like sittiing in the trunk of your car all day.  And I notice that there is no reply to the fact that the "den living animal" is crap - there never is!  That "den animal" thing is another "sound byte" without thought behind it.
 
Showing a picture of a dog catching a ball tells us NOTHING about the dog's mental state. And being crated doesn't make a dog "stupid", it just doesn't do justice to the animal's innate ability to learn from its environment.

Again, my arguement isn't going to change those who manage their dogs this way...  but I hope to reach those who may be wondering how they will confine their 'best friend'.

I suppose I worded my post wrong: I don't think that letting a dog run around is irresponsible. I think that if someone thinks that this is somehow all they need to do (put them in the backyard or tie them to a chain) that that is irresponsible. My dog needs more mental stimulation than just looking at pretty flowers. I don't think anyone who has posted here has said that they keep a dog in a crate all day, everyday?? (edit: well, except for that one person that we're ignoring) Meh, I don't read all the posts.

Showing a picture of my dog catching a ball is just a demonstration that I think it is important to do constructive things with my dog. Nothing more, jeez. I found the phrase "emotionally stunted" to be interesting, because I've noticed that many dogs I've encountered tied out on chains or shoved into the backyard could have this phrase applied to them.

"Again, sorry to anger and not my intention; but I WILL speak up against the practice of using a shipping crate as primary housing for dogs anywhere."

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, Diane, as I do with your stance on the tethering of dogs as a preferable alternative and I am neither inexperienced nor do I consider myself misled.

Boy it is great to have the board back.I think DDR is finally gone.Rob No more queen of pain

 Chains have their place. Let's not make sweeping generalizations, shall we? I have seen many dogs who mentally do much better on a chain than in an enclosure of any kind. I don't see how anyone can rationalize leaving a dog in a crate 24/7. Period.

I know of a woman who does this, and even keeps bark collars on them so they just sit and whine, but never bark. Some of the dogs' ears are also folded over at the tips. They have a dead look in their eyes and a blankness I have honestly never seen in a dog who "lived" on a chain. I can't say I have a lot of experience with dogs who were never taken off the chain, so perhaps I'm generalizing, but the dogs I know/knew who lived on chains except when taken off to work were mentally stable; these dogs who live in crates in the basement are hollow, empty, zombies. I could go on and on w/the comparison, but I don't see the point. 

This thread started when Whackjob started yet again to try to throw a red herring at us. At this point, arguing amongst ourselves is counterproductive, as the way I see it, we all are in agreement in the most fundamental sense. 

Diane, welcome.