cattle prod - Page 9

Hey, i like every trophy I've ever gotten and i've never made a dime in this sport.  Even those that came to club and tried to pay me after I told them to give it to the club.  I don't train with people that arent friends outside of club and I don't charge friends :)  I don't sell my dogs either.  My mom still has my fastest pin trophey from when I was 7, I still like that one too :)

Sarah, I embody reality. Again, if YOU come to me, asking me to join my club or group or have me train your dog, paint your house, remove your pancreas, of whatever, you came to me because you think I am an expert, I know what I am doing...let me do my job that YOU hired me for. If you dont like how I do my job, dont hire me, go somewhere and we can be friends.

If you want to train and not compete, hire a competent helper, a lot of them that do IPO will also do private training, pay them and you can have fun training your dog.

Lastly, once again, this seems to be a problem for you, I am not now nor have I ever been involved with IPO, never trained or titled a dog in that sport and do not have any interest in it, like I said earlier, you seem to have skipped that point, trophies and ribbons dont pay the bills.

Zdog, thank youf or your thoughtful post. You have shared some good statements! But, it is asking a lot for a new person to start a group. Where to start? Where to find people? Where to find a helper? How to buy equipment and blinds? I mean who goes into a new sport and asked the new person to go start a group? I mean...that just doean't make sense!!!!! It's intimidating enough to train let alone start a new group!!

I guess I have just had incredibly bad luck. I got kicked out of one group because I didn't think a prong or e-collar was necessary with my dog's tracking-which the other members I asked said it was fine. I wouldn't have believed that e-collars even had a place in tracking until I witnessed it. And, I didn't want to use one for obedience to polish heeling as I wanted to try other methods to get that extreme robotic attention. My dog looks at me but not with that intensity and I know 99% of people get it through prong and/or e-collar.  When I got kicked out, several long time members were horrified and contacted me privately. But, nobody will say anything because they do not want to get kicked out or lose their memership spot with club. But, some of them did feel bad. Interestingly, all the people that contacted me privately were old timers who had been doing the sport for decades and were just horrified. They said things didn't use to be like that but that does not help me now. In may area, IPO club trainers weild lots of power as IPO is not something one can od on their own.

However, thank you for sharing your thoughts and encouragement

Now, back to the use of cattle prods in IPO....

I started a club as a newbie (out of necessity, not having a club around, not disliking others), it can be done.  I don't train there anymore but did all of my dog's foundation work and BH with them (though we were not an "official" club so I had to drive two states just go get a frickin BH).  It was hard work, but do-able.  Maybe all the horrified people would join, who knows?

screw the cattle prods, they aren't used enough to merit any discussion beyond a very very tiny minority of people might use one and the other 99.9 percenters do not, nor would they even consider it.  That goes for IPO, ring, or police dog trainers at least with the many I have trained and trained with.

a helper is tough, get a pillow and someone willing and start :)  You can do a lot on your own.  It might not be the best, but then most of us don't get the best either.  It's rare to find an indeal situation.  I've been doing my own helper work for the past 5 years, definitely not ideal.  I occassionally get someone else that's available to do work with each other or if I travel.  At this point in my life, I'm not as willing to travel hours one direction very often :)

equipment?  If you buy it's expensive and if you need portability, it's needed.  But if you have a place and some wood skills you can build.  A hurdle and aframe are fairly easy.  I have built both, my hurdle has last 3 moves and 10 years :)  Blinds?  you really only need one to start.  You ban buy or build with just a small tarp and some extendable tent poles.  Or you can build permanent ones if you have the place and space.  You don't need a football field and 6 to start.  You don't even need one to start, though it is nice to imprint things that happen around a blind, in a blind.

Lots of people start groups.  Out of necessity or because they didn't like the options they had. and why not?  if you don't like how one place is doing it, start your own.  Lots of people train all over.  I do not belong to the only sanctioned club around here, but most of that club trains with me outside of that club.  I train with a "group" as well.  Anyway, sometimes it help to have a template to start, sometimes it's nice to find your own way too.  I suggest both :)  It can be intimidating, but what's the alternative?  do nothing and don't train, or do something else.  long time members will leave clubs, they will quit entirely, they will start new ones, they will quit then find somewhere else, they quit and then go back.  people do all sorts of things, but nothing happens if you do nothing.  Maybe you start a group with 2 people.  You do little more than some OB and wonder how to work thru tracking problems, you get a shitty helper and they leave, you're stuck with 2 doing ob and tracking again, you barely get a bh, but you meet other people at trials and other events.  3 years from now you have 10 members and a very good helper moved into the area and he thinks the other 2 clubs are assholes too and he joins yours, and he has equipment he's looking for a place to put.  Suddenly you have the makings of a "real" club and all you had to do was try stuff, have fun and meet people.

 

HD, thank you for backing me up re. the malinois. This lady has titled many dogs, and her dog prior to this was a GSD from von der Schifflache kennels. She put an IPO3 on him before retiring him due to health issues. She say the mal is SO different from her GSD temperament-wise!  It has really been a learning curve.

Z-Dog, great post! I wasn't going to mention it, but we had a big blow-up this year over something most members thought was really trivial, and a whole bunch of people left. I think we were down to only 6 members at one time. We are now back up to where we were before the blow-up, and have some really great (new) people!

This club is fairly new, and got its start, as I understand it, for EXACTLY the reasons Smiley is complaining about. We are still getting new members from the club we broke away from, as they find the 'old boy' culture just isn't their cup of tea!

Our original president breeds dogs and shows them in CKC shows, and does OB with them.

You are very welcome Sunsilver. A Malinois is NOT a short coated GSD and an entire generation of trainers have had to learn new training methods/refine what they knew, because its not fun to either "wear" the little dog or have it shut down on you.

"screw the cattle prods, they aren't used enough to merit any discussion..."

After 5 pages, someone finally says it.  

Pirate....yes, I am really training....pics....training last week. Here working bitework and long down while another OB routine going. But, I am not happy with what I see around me. I haven't even gotten into the huge horror almost every IPO person has towards the fact I also do AKC stuff. I am new. I am not going to make stuff up. I don't understand why there is such a division between the two worlds. We all have german shepherds here and we should all support each other- regardless of bloodline, training method, or sport.

Zdog...thank you for your comments. I am just so frustrated I think I might just stick with AKC sports. So, I guess I am not a diehard- drive four hours each way, sacrifice my family, start a new club, etc.  I work; I am a single parent; I have a limited budget and the money going to IPO was and is not easy for me but I made it happen and picked up extra hours.  I am a sports mom shuttling my son to games and practices; I am involved in my religious community; I volunteer at hospital.  I just don't have that kind of time to devote to having to travel hours for IPO or starting a club and all that entails. Apparently, in your eyes that would make me suck and I am sorry for that.

I just wanted to train and trial, that's all. I just wanted a place to do IPO where they would help me and try their best to work with me......believing that any dog and owner should get the chance to experience IPO and fall in love with it (which I did); believing that no method works for every dog and there is flexibility in training; believing that everyone has different goals and it's ok. I respect their decision to compete at the National and Regional level and the precision that entails in training. I'm ok with that and support that even though I do agree with their methods. But, I want to trial at the club level. So what?  I wanted a place where it doesn't matter what bloodline I have. First question when you step on trial field...where and who did you get your dog from? Who cares? So nobody knows my breeder? So what? And..yes, I also do AKC and I want them to just deal with it. It just doesn't seem like to much to ask!!! Why can't people just respect each other and support each other with the goal that we are all there to have fun with our dog? We all love our dogs. 

If anyone has any knowledge of protection helpers that will work privately with me than please send me a PM. I am in central/metowowest MA but will travel anywhere that is up to an hour away. I can't go too far as I just can't spend that much time away or afford the gas. Thank you.

"Wear the little dog"! Z-dog, you crack me up!    We have another mal in the club, a rescue. The first thing he did when he arrived at the club was BITE the trainer...HARD! He'd obviously had a rough life, and we had to spend a great deal of time getting him used to the idea the other club members weren't going to hurt him.