Do Stud dog owners have any say on the litter?? - Page 1

I just wondered something....with all the talk about various contracts; does a stud dog owner have the right to add stipulations to the bitches owner when it comes to placing the pups, properly socializing them and preparing them for their new homes, ect. or is their job done once their stud fees been paid and the breeding was successful? 

I wanted to know how you can assure that the person you've bred your dog to (who is probably a total stranger) will do the right thing with the litter.  Some people talk a good game but don't always follow through with what they say leaving you sorry you agreed to breed with them regardless of how good the breeding was expected to be.  Aside from the fact you want to bash yourself in the head with a hammer what can you really do if anything?

good question, i would like to here what people have to say on this.

I would think a stud owner would be able to say in the contract that all pups going to companion home are not to be bred (spay neuter contract) or state that the breeder must have a contract stateing that pups sold must pass ofa and sch  title before being bred.

i would think this would be possible with an agreement before the breeding takes place.

no.  The female's owner is the owner of the litter.  They pay the stud dog owner a stud fee, which pays for the stud to service the female.  End of the story for the stud dog and  his owner.  The only "power" the stud dog owner has, is to refuse to accept the female or her owner's business - I turn down females on a regular basis, because of many reasons (untitled female, no hip rating, prelim hip rating only, no plans for the puppies except pet, no plans at all except "want to breed her", female has faults (long coat, white, faulty temperament) - many many females are politely told "nope" by me who is only interested in my stud dog producing the very best possible offspring - which requires a quality female AND owner who has good plans for the litter.  My only power as the stud dog owner is to say "yes" or "no" before the stud fee is paid and service is provided.  After the deed is done, then you are out of the picture completely.  Remember that it is the stud dog who is most often blamed for crappy puppies - if they are not healthy, have bad temperaments, hips or etc - it is the stud dogs' fault!!!  (or so people will say). 

molly

I believe it depends on what you would have in writing with both parties signing showing mutual agreement-how else can you 'enforce' another party to do what's merely verbally agreed between yourself and someone else without such? And, if the shoe was on the other foot, would you want to have  the stud dog owner who's male sired your new litter capable of coming to you whenever they wanted to expect more out of you and how you handle your puppies? What if you'd sold some of the litter, but then the stud dog owner suddenly changed their expectations and expect more stipulations because it was their right? Only a written contract could prevent such.

A mere verbal agreement, if the situation got heated enough, may or may NOT stand up in court. It would become a she-said he-said civil issue which would get tied up in court and cost both parties time and money needlessly without a contract. You don't want that!

So, if you have it in writing BEFORE you ever decide to stud your male, or breed your bitch to someone else's stud dog for a litter, it's the safest way to go. It's the only way one would be able to ensure such would be followed to the satisfaction of both parties. If need be, how else could you prove the agreement stipluations except with a contract with both parties signing?

If you plan on having such stipulations, then it needs to be talked about and mutually understood BEFORE dogs are ever bred, yes, because if the bitch owner doesn't agree with or want your expectations, then they have a right to look elsewhere for another stud dog. If you talk with the bitch owner and make CLEAR your expectations prior to breeding and they're ok with it, then it should be in a written contract signed at the time the breeding takes place so that the other party can't just change their mind, or, for the bitch owner's benefit, lots of extra expectations not talked about at the time of breeding can't be placed upon them from the stud dog owner once the litter arrives.

In summary, you can potentially have any type of expectations placed on bitch owners or puppy buyers you want IF you have it in writing with both you and buyer/bitch owner signing prior to doing the transaction. Clearly explaining your expectations prior to someone purchasing your pups or using your stud dog by everything and having a signed contract is always the safest.

Well, you can certainly try that but good luck...... like Molly says you "politely" refuse a breeding if the bitch or her owner doesn't fall into the guidelines you have set for yourself and the breeding of your stud dog. That owuld be how you control who breeds to your dog.

But any litter I breed out of my bitches is my litter - I may negotiate a pup instead of pay a stud fee if the stud owner is interested.. I do welcome referrals from the stud owner.....but the stud owner is not involved any further.

I really doubt if there is a bitch owner who would enter into a contract such as you have mentioned .. when I plan a breeding, I do all the research, I pay for all the pre-testing, the ultrasounds and xrays, I am the one sitting up however long it takes to get thru the whelping, I am the one raising puppies and feeding everyone and cleaning ... I will also be the one to screen whoever is interested in my puppies. I have said this before in another thread a while back.. sorry if it's repetitive.

In all reality, in all the years I've done this... I've never had anyone make such requests and if they did, well there are other choices... I can breed to any dog in the world!!

Denise

Yep - the bitch owner pays for the male's service. Period. He and his owner are done when the female is bred and pregnant.   The male/owner have no rights to the litter - financial or otherwise.   It is polite to let the owner of the male know the outcome of the mating.  It is nice when the male's owner gets people who want pups from his male and refers them to the owner of the litter.  But there is no obligation on the part of the bitch's owner to the males owner past paying that stud fee.

The male owner has some power in controlling the quality of hte female when pups represent him.  Breedings get done for the sake of a stud fee or ego because someone likes the male and wants to use him all too often.  People with good bitches who do their homework want the best possible male they can find.  They look at hips, titles, placements, how many pups the male has already, what those pups have done.  there is more to a breeding male than its pedigree.  And owners of male dogs should look the same way at females.  Too many pups out there from marginal breedings done coz the sire or dam of one of the dogs is a name.  Just look at the ads here, how many litters in the states have both parents wtih no more than, if even that, a sch1?

Most people will tell you any co-ownership ususally becomes a mess and most breeders stay away from it.

i