Chicks doing helper work? - Page 10

I think as a general rule there is something to gender.  Sure a few women can pressure a dog the way a man could, but overall I'd think it was different.  Just look at how many people living in pet homes say their dog was abused by a man cause they don't like men.  Do you ever hear that about dogs not liking women??  I've known many dogs over the years that were all sorts of breeds that did not like men, they would act aggressive out of fear or just run.

I have never seen that reaction from a dog about women, unless the dog was just afraid of everything, but never gender specific like I see dogs afraid of man only.  Small or large it doesn't matter.

I don't know if its because of smell, body stature, whatever, I do believe the dogs sense something most of the time.

I never said that they couldn't work a dog, I was just curious about getting the dog to take them seriously. Buko does not take Emily seriously, but the sport that I am in does not need to train in defense, nor do we get as carried away about it's "NEED" in training.

Please tell me that you are not one of those people that think that they can work a dog in 100% prey, or 100% defense. LOL

It is funny that you talk about 100% prey and defense when I said the best helper I have seen was one of the best at balancing.  But you probably didn't read that.  It's funny but you pump Ivan's video and probably think he is quite the trainer.  I don't know if he still is, but for a while there he was training in defense 100%.  He said, "If you want to play frisbee, got to the park.  OHHH, look at me I got the frisbee".  I don't knock the way anyone trains.  I may question, but I don't knock.

I think Don C brings up a good number of points ..-- we train dogs with our minds ...doesn't matter  man / women / teenager even .  that is how you train a dog using your head .  !   we must have the ability to understand the dog and get into it's head too !  one person can do that as well as another  man / woman ! or as D C also stated to read your dog and to adapt that is critical . true tech is also most  important , after all protection work is combative . it's physical . we not only have to teach our dogs psychological skills but the CORRECT physical skills /  approach /timing  /targeting /bite grip etc etc. how can one teach this if they can't guide the dog ?any helper must be able to do that physical aspect.  Don is correct .. i would not put inexperienced people wtih novice/young dogs .. the helper is supposed to be teaching the dog .. the dog is not supposed to be helping the helper ! seems just plain 'ol common sense .. at least to me .. that is a task for a veteran dog already trained .. novice helpers best learn on a dog the is well trianed .  

               I want to say something that is politically incorrect but is JMO.  I am applying this to dogs that we want to bring out civil aggression  in. Dogs that are going to be used for PP etc. I am referring to agitators that want to bring out everything that the dog is capable of dishing out and starting on the right foot.I have some of the opinions and observations here and realize I am opening a can of worms, however I am curious what  that  do lots of P.P training as well.
 I do not use female agitators. I use male agitators. Given two people, one male and one female with  identical physical skills, identical abilities in reading a dog, identical in knowlege and in every way, I will choose the man. Not because my perception of the people is different but because the dogs perception of the people is different. Dogs generally will respond differently to man and women. Dogs in general do not percieve a women as a threat or a challenge as much as they do a man. 
When you take your dogs to unknown places in unusual circumstances or late hours in the day who do they alert to quicker ? When people come over unanounced who do they warm up to quicker ? Most dogs will always respond with acceptance to a female before a male. When a  man, say a street person approaches what is his response compared to a woman.
To me agitation starts before I ever move. It starts when I look the dog in the eyes and see what he's all about. He looks me in the eyes and sees what I am all about. This is when it starts. He sees me as someone that is nasty and untrustworthy. This is a real fine point that can't be measured but it's there and he will see it in a man over a woman most of the time. We are not talking about machines that respond with the same response everytime. We are talking about living animals that have innate likes and dislikes, trusts and distrusts and this is one of them IMO.

olks - well - with respect -- i agree awith your words about a dog reading us .. sure the just the outlook even without movement .. -ture -if one knows what ther are doing ..-- but i think you underestimate the dog .. and other genders. we train body suit .-- beleive me .. the dogs are just as agreesive with any gender !! and as far as PP -- trained that -- but another variable , which you may overlooked is context  !-- beleive me , although i made it a point to have my PP dog mannered ..  he'd walked through crowds of people with respect but i can assure you  : a threatening move .. he did not care iabout the gender , a clown , a robot ... -- put your hand on me and with a gesture- he take anything down -- ... that 's why --- he was PP GSD ! also ..i have trained police dogs , beleive me ..sometimes I  think they found the ladies helping out [ i mean no to be smarty pants here but figuratrivley] even a more fun  to go after !

Quote: No Jeff, contrary to your belief it doesn't take a penis to elicit aggression from a dog. I know it's hard to believe. It's not your smell of testosterone or anything else.

A woman is completely capable.

OK, reread my post and tell me I am saying that women cannot ever possibly elicit aggression from a dog.

Could it possibly be that I said that I have not seen it??  I am not all encompassing trainer guy, no matter what you think my posts sound like. LOL

However, I could use a decoy, and if you think that you could get some aggression out of my dog, I could use the help. I am without decoy right now. : ) Open invitation if you are in Colorado.

Don, we/ I have a joke about 100% defence and prey here, and I just forgot that there is no way that you could know it. LOL  If Ivan says that he trains 100% defence, and says it in front of me I will make fun of him for a good ten minutes. Then I will go home. I would have to hear that come out of his mouth personally to believe.

Quote: novice helpers best learn on a dog the is well trianed .

Here we go with the half read hurry and reply post. LOL

I have seen helpers who were trained this way get shut down by a dog with odd thresholds, because the trained dog has already been conditioned to respond properly.

They were completely at a loss as to what to do with the dog, so your theory, (not YOURS) is for shit.

Playing peekaboo from a distance with a couple of blinds is not going to break a dog. So stop quoting what you have heard your entire life, and think for yourself. Have you done this and ruined a dog????? NOOOOOO, you have not. Get some experience before you speak. : )

I've always been a firm believer that women can do everything a man can do TO SOME EXTENT. lol  And I'm not saying a woman can't do helper work; I just think it won't be as effective as if it were a man doing the same thing.  I think IMO if a woman wanted to help out her club because they're short helpers, too many dogs to work that day, want to give the guys a break for a minute or because the regular helper couldn't make it for training that day it'd be great to see a gal get out there and do her best.  But if you're training on a more serious level or there's specific things you're trying to bring out in your dog such as more civil aggression then yes I would prefer a man working my dog because ultimately if you're faced in a situation where there's an intruder or robber it's probably 9 times out of 10 gonna be a guy not a girl.

I have to agree that dogs don't tend to take women as a "threat" and they will not be so quick to light up on them as they would if it were a man.  But with respect to the ladies who want to learn and give it a shot; I don't see anything wrong with it and would support their efforts.  Hell just having the guts to put on the sleeve is enough for me to give them their props.