USA Sieger Show - Page 1

Pedigree Database

 

by Kevin Geagan on 04 May 2004 - 01:05

I don't know if it has been posted or not but there is information up now at www.germanshepherddog.com See you all in Nashville. Kevin and Dallas

by Joanna on 04 May 2004 - 16:05

Be aware that: SV judge/Koermeister Oschler is the only officially internationally recognized judge for the event. Herr Oschler is judging the male classes, so his show ratings are valid and accedpted by the SV and the FCI. However, Johnannes Grewe, a USCA appointed judge, does not have authorization to give internationally acredited show ratings. In ortherwords, Mr. Grewe's show ratings are limited to acceptanced ONLY USCA. Since Mr. Grewe is judging the female classes, his show ratings can invalid internationally and can not be applied to SV breed surveys.

by Joanna on 04 May 2004 - 16:05

Correction to: "his show ratings can invalid internationally and can not be applied to SV breed surveys." should say: "his show ratings are invalid internationally, as well as, not being accepted for SV breed surveys."

by Roger Ven Torres on 04 May 2004 - 16:05

Joanna, let us learn how to support our own. Herr Grewe has more than adequate qualifications. How many fanciers actually compete internationally? How about the Peruvian dog Anta Ben Arten. COAPA have their own judges too. Is the Sieger show the only show rating you can use to get a breed survey? The SV breed survey is important mainly for "big time" commercial breeders, that travel to Europe and breed their dogs to top SV SIEGER participants = puppies worth $3000. I bought one of those pups, now she is a pet, undersize, pale color, poor temperament. But her parents are SV breed surveyed and German lines! Roger.

by Kerry on 04 May 2004 - 18:05

"Is the Sieger show the only show rating you can use to get a breed survey?"-Roger Ven Torres No, but if you have a VA rated bitch under a judge that isn't recognized by the SV, you don't have a VA rating if you should campaign your dog in Germany. What's wrong with internationally recognized titles? Granted, this really does significantly impact the big, international breeders more than the little guy. Sorry, Roger, but that you were handed a $3000 lemon, doesn't mean that it was due to whether the breeding pair had internationally recognized titles or not.

KYLE

by KYLE on 14 May 2004 - 15:05

Sorry, Roger, but that you were handed a $3000 lemon, doesn't mean that it was due to whether the breeding pair had internationally recognized titles or not. If someone were to spend $3k for a pup from VA parents, I would expect the dog to be of similiar quality and health. We have collectively lost our minds to spend that kind of money on a situation that is the equivalent of a crap shoot. Why are we spending that type of money on pups without guarentees and keeping our fingers and toes crossed? I am personally involved and more interested in the working aspect of the GSD. I am aware that there needs to be a balance between temperment and conformation but will spending this type of money on so so dogs improve our breed? The price of working line dogs is going thru the roof as well. You are hard pressed to find a Sch 1 dog being sold for less than 3K. Why are there not more USA judges with the ability to provide international titles? Is this a political thing, time consuming endeaver or both? Just my two cents. Kyle

by Roger Ven Torres on 17 May 2004 - 17:05

Agreed Kyle. I use to be a believer of you get what you pay for. In this business, you need a trusted ally. A person with honor, and will not compromise his/her principles. Dealing with puppies is crap shoot. Then why price it more than $1000. If you are in the know, reputable German breeders do not sell their pups more than $500 euros but will see an older dog more expensive for obvious reasons, you see what you get. Another problem is the Guarantee game we play in North America. Attached is an interesting article by Mr. Impellezeri I found on the web - http://home.sprintmail.com/~impactgsd/breed.html Look under the guarantee game. There are a lot of eye opening articles he wrote as well. I concluded that a guarantee is a security blanket. These are living creatures not an appliance. There are not more USA judges, as we live in a Colonial mentality environment. If it ain't SV it means nothing. Hypothetically, if Herr Messler immigrated to the States, drops his SV judging papers and change it to USA judge, one wonders if people will still seek his expertise. I respect every breeder and fancier that supports a USA conformation judge. I am eager to see more USA judges. I am excited to see Mr. Carbajal judge as well. I am elated we have Herr Johaness Grewe as our Koermeister. A man you can approach, no matter who you are. Roger

Sherman-RanchGSD

by Sherman-RanchGSD on 17 May 2004 - 19:05

**Hypothetically, if Herr Messler immigrated to the States, drops his SV judging papers and change it to USA judge, one wonders if people will still seek his expertise.*** They may seek his expertise, BUT will they desire to obtaine ratings that are not internationally recognized? What is they hypothesis for not being able to provide internationally (SV) recognized judges for a high level event? does Does anyone know what would be required for statesiders to *become* approved? Is it difficult, costly, unheard of, not of interest to any of the judges? what? Just wondering why compromise cant be achieved on an old issue. D.L.Sherman http://www.sherman-ranch.com http://www.naturalpetsource.net

by solo on 17 May 2004 - 21:05

The issue is WUSV rules & regulations - and WUSV qualified CONFORMATION JUDGES & KORMEISTERS (Breed Wardens) We should all recognise the need for many of our TOP GSD Specialist Judges (NOT ALL ROUNDERS) to become WUSV qualified - at the hieghest level. 1) NOT 3 TESTS (honory SV Judges) 2) SEVEN tests - FULL SV RECOGNITION AS A JUDGE THIS IS A GERMAN DOG - WUSV RULES & REGULAION DOMINATES. WE KNOW THE GERMAN SIEGER SHOW IS THE "MECCA" OF OUR BREED. WE SHOULD ADOPT WUSV R&R ABSOLUTELY. EACH COUNTRY CAN AND SHOULD HAVE WUSV JUDGES & SURVEYORS.

by Roger Ven Torres on 18 May 2004 - 22:05

There is no such thing as a WUSV judge. SV judge, and SV foreign judge. WUSV is the World union of Gewrman shepherd organization in the world. Each country has a German Shepherd organization. To have an SV foreign judge per country is a good idea. The most important issue is a breed registry. I understand that the SV sieger show is the Mecca of our breed. But each country to be able to keep up with the higher SV standard is to have a breed registry similar to the SV. Ideally each country should be an Ortsgruppe of the SV, or considered a region, but the almighty FCI will not allow such. Herr Messler hypothetically ask each WUSV member nation in 2002 if separating from FCI would be feasible but none of the WUSV nations would want to do it. For you to conclude that having an SV foreign judge in every country will improve the breed registry of their respective country and outcomes of dogs, is hands down fallible. There are 2 organizations in USA, the GSDCA has an SV foreign judge vs none in USCA. Do you feel that the GSDCA is far superior in implementing the basic tenets and requirements of the SV in paper and in practice? NOT! The politics and business side of this hobby is not doing the breed a favor. I wish WUSV would just drop from the FCI, and each country, obliged to adhere with the SV breed registry requirements. That means, a drop in business, for a lot of backyard and commercial breeders. I agree with Solo, maybe our own local judges program should be developed and promoted with SV's cooperation. Sherman, you put more emphasis on a small show in Germany, than a USA Sieger? If my dog was judged by Johaness and passes her Sch, you feel your dog may be superior, as she was passed by an SV judge? Did ou know Johaness was also an SV judge till he left Germany in 1981? You want international recognition using an SV? I person in the know, do not automatically take a dogs title based on SV title. How many dogs you've seen that are V1 in a small show in Germany, beaten by a local dog in a big show here, judge also by an SV judge or Johaness. Some dogs judged by Johaness, did very well internationally. JMHO, ROger Roger.





 


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