Let me start by saying that I don't consider my - Page 1

Let me start by saying that I don't consider myself a breeder though I have breed a few litters. I come from the working dog side of the house. I love to see a dog that can and will work. Personally, the show dog male would have to be a monster. I would also have to know that he is reproducing his working ability. By doing this breeding, you are creating bast%rd children. I feel that each side work/show would shun the litter. The working people would be afraid of the show dog. The show people would question the structure.

My old competition dog was the result of working/show cross. He he can work like Jasko vom Stahlberg i say go for it. He was my first dog, so I didn't know what I know now.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/120787.html

His father was a V dog in the C phase. Bacchus was 99 points once, but to control him we had to tighten the screw.

Sorry I started a new thread.

that's what I'm afraid of....the b*stard children per say and that it would be more challenging to place the puppies...unless I had some determined inviduals up for a challenge like myself? =)  Although, looking at a temperment perspective......placing puppies from a working x showline cross would be nice for the companion/pet homes as well.  So many people say I should breed my DDR bitch to a West workingline male for the ultimate working/sport prospects....but most breeders aren't as lucky and fortunate to place ALL of their puppies in sport/working homes...and the result of this cross would be a bit too much drive and energy for your average family pet home. 

I've also talked to breeders who will mate a black female to a showline male to improve the saddles as well and pigmentation. 

Just because a dog is black does not mean it will improve pigmentation.  Black dogs are a result of recessive genes matching up in a breeding, since black is the least dominant color.  Sable is the strongest.  So if you want to improve pigmentation, you breed to lines known for deep pigmentation - you can only truly see that in non-black dogs really.  You can look at a black dog's sable littermates (if any), and if they are all very rich and dark, then it's a good bet the black littermate probably carries the strong pigment as well.  Remember you can have litters with both black and WHITE German Shepherds if the genes line up just right.  So just because a dog is black (melanistic) is not necessarily an indicator of carrying rich pigment.  Color should be your last concern though, unless you are trying to market to a very narrow cross-section of the GSD world.     Is your DDR female lacking the drives you seek? What are you trying to add to the breeding and why?

>>>I should breed my DDR bitch to a West workingline male for the ultimate working/sport prospects....but most breeders aren't as lucky and fortunate to place ALL of their puppies in sport/working homes...and the result of this cross would be a bit too much drive and energy for your average family pet home. <<<<

In most litters, there is a range of drives.  Some medium drive, some high drive aligators, once in a great while even in working dogs...a lower drive pup.  This usually works out really well, you test them, observe them, and then the high drive pups go to the sport homes, the super aligators to really serious sport homes, the medium drive pups to active pet homes.  Active pet owners love their medium drive working dogs.. they say "The best dog I ever owned!" 

Once in awhile you get a really uniformly high drive litter.  But that is not the common theme, even from the bitch who produced all ankle aligators last time. 

Veronica

I have seen a picture of your black female online somewhere, she is a very nice female and as far as structually, I think she would produce very nice puppies with the right showline male.

Breeding a blk/red showline male to a black ddr or workingline female will produce very deep blk/red pigmentation just about every time.  With your bitch, considering you choose the right male, the puppies will be strucutally correct and actually very attractive to showline people.  You will also have puppies very well suited for sport and fields of work, while some puppies will be better suited for pet homes, just like in any litter.  For the most part, with a show/workingline cross, your puppies should be easier to place than a full workingline litter as the puppies will be more attractive to pet people (blk./red puppies are very easy to place)  In my breeding program, I strongly preffer placing my puppies into pet homes (or with really small breeders), where they can live as part of the family inside the house...not in kennels or crates.  Sometimes they choose to show, or work, but most often not....in the end the dogs are happier.

Thank you very much Olga Ashley for your comments on my girl Esther, and your opinions...I feel the same way about placing in pet homes and SMALL breeders.  Esther is a very nice dog with a VERY nice temperment and awesome working ethic.  I have a breeding booked with a DDR male this summer, but am looking to do this showline cross next year with possibly VA Karats Ulko.  I've seen him work in person and he's truely an amazing dog and his pictures don't do him justice.  I'm wanting to do this for myself because I would like to keep a really nice female and attempt the challenge in the showring and field. =)  And for others who may feel the same way or they can make really nice pets for the loving home.