THANK-YOU BEWARE - Page 3

Round Trip through priceline.com ranges from $244-255 round trip non-stop flights. Here in FL you can add court costs and expenses to a civil law suit. FYI... At least the judgement will go on the crdit report and will hinder them from any major purchases in the USA until satisfied. IMO it is worth the aggrevation. If worse comes to worse you have Judge Judy LMAO...

Well, a while back I suggested and asked for opinions on the board regards and ESCROW SERVICE for dog sales. So many were sooooooooooooooooooooo against it, but, had nashman engaged an escrow service, he would not been out of his money. Is it beginning to be clear now that it is necessary to have such an INDEPENDENT party holding the money until the goods and the papers arrive? 1) buyer sents money to escrow 2) seller sents dog via plane to buyer 3)seller sents akc ownership etc to Escrow 4) dog arrives in good order 5) Buyer releases money to seller Look, many stated that this would then give too much power to the buyer. Not true. Beforehand simply a contract needs to be signed by both parties held by escrow. details details...

WWTSD? Translation: What Would Tony Soprano Do? Seriously, I think the more people express themselves about the raw deals they got- the more pressure that is put on these half-a$$ed breeders to do right, and the more "bad press" these people get- SOMEDAY, SOME WAY, they will end up out of business. Howcum these people don't have to have a business license, or a breeder's permit? I am in Florida and had to have both! Maybe that is the avenue to pursue. If county or state officials don't care about poor folks getting ripped off- I am SURE they care about their own revenue lost by these people doing business without licenses and permits. Ya think?

Well, the credit report thing is good......I suppose everybody might go about things their own way? My time is money also.I guess again,it comes down to buyer beware. The escrow idea is a good one also.Who shall be the escrow?

That's where an organization of pro importers/brokers would come in, Charlie. It could be just one of the services they could offer. Am I'm being idealistic thinking that there is so little competition between importers that the good ones would actually be interested in promoting anyone other than themselves? I understand there are right around 1,000 GSD's exported from Germany into the US annually. Saoa is the only person I remember even suggesting any sort of centralized effort to prevent the scumbags of the GSD world from holding all the cards. Certainly being swindled by so called importers in not new business in the GSD world. It's the second oldest profession in the world I think. Why hasn't anyone done something about it by now? The squeaky wheel get the grease.

Blitz,I think it is a good concept.I also think to make it work it would need to be a disintrested third party,somehow paid for jointly by the seller and the buyer.I think something like this could work but it is not going to be a very easy thing to get up and running.I honestly do not see something like this coming to be in our life time......

Charlie, if it was easy, i always say, everyone would be doing it... To setup the Escrow is actually not too hard. One needs to get an "Business Honesty/Surety Bond", anyone with good credit can obtain that. http://www.orsurety.com/prod14.htm One can start at a 10,000 bond and increase it as business volume grows. Anyone with a contact in the Escrow world can then ask questions and research the steps to be taken. Get an attorney to write contracts, disclaimers, and get a great website set up to promote it. Escrow means NEUTRAL party, and it should, to my opinion, be someone who is in the "dog business" to have a better understanding of what goes on. I'm not saying i'm going to do it, as I have enough going on, but, i've got experience as a mortgage broker in two states as well as being a tiny breeder. NOW, this can benefit not just the GSDs and their owners, it can benefit all other breeds, cats, pigeons (yes, they get shipped worldwide too...) livestock, etc For someone with the time and interest it can actually become a great business venture. The biggest challenge is to set rules and limits to what the escrow will/can do which will take a lot of thought, no doubt.

Saoa for the cost of escrow people might as well hop on a plane and pick up the dog themselves. When you purchase from overseas the escrow service would most likely have to be in the country the dog comes from. At least any seller with an ounce of sanity would do it that way. So then you are back to the next problem - you are dealing with laws in two different countries, the one residing outside the country may be disadvantaged. And who is supposed to pay for all the associated cost? Lets start with the nonesense of after dog has arrived in such and such a condition funds are realeased. Who is supposed to determine that? The new owner? I think not. An independent vet maybe. OK, add that to the cost. Considering that all dogs that are shipped by air have to have a current health cert, and that airliones are required to ship only animals that appear healthy, one must assume that the dog has always at least left in a good condition. Which then makes the clause that dog has to arrive in good condition redundant. What happens during the flight is not the sellers responsibility. So the only way to "ensure" that dog arrives well is by way of transport insurance for the full purchase price of the dog. More cost. Very considerable cost actually if dog is coming from overseas. Then upon entry, this value from the insurance will be considered the actual import value. Customs will be very happy to see you that day. More cost. It would also open much other venues for fraud from side of the buyer. Good chance to have a look-see, then decide not the dog they want for whatever reason, use "not arrived in good condition" as reason (or better excuse) = no money. Now dog sits somewhere far away from home and needs to be sent back. More cost. Who is supposed to cover that? So a return airfare for the dog would have to be included in purchase price. Simple solution = pick up the dog in person, or send someone to do it for you. And bottom line: If someone does not trust the seller that much, they are better off not doing business with that person.

People just have to use common sense sometimes. Most of the incidents I read here were screaming "something is wrong" well before the dog was purchased. Bobby, no disrespect meant here I hope you know that, but seriously - if a 3 year old proven stud male out of a supposedly good breeding with OFA excellent hips AND a SchH3 with very good scores is supposed to cost ONLY $1500US as a pet or $2500 with full registration, then 100.000 red alarm bells should go off in anyones head with such force that it gives you a major headache if nothing else! This dog costs less than the average puppy. In addition to puppy cost it has been raised, vaccinated, OFA'd, AND titled. And the dog is in the prime of his life. Any 3 year old with a SchH3 should always cost a multiple of that. Then Bobby noticed some discrepancies while they were still talking about the dog... He should have listened to the voices in his head this time :). If someone is really out to get you, they will. This fellow was quite clever. $1500 is within a range that some people feel they can take a gamble on. A calculated risk - of course it sounds too good to be true, but in the back of ones head something one could possibly afford to risk... The chance of loosing doesn't really enter the mind consciously. When things go wrong it is enough to feel the sting. Not enough though to start a huge effort to retrieve it if you are from out of state. That is probably what he was counting on. Very simple rules for a successful purchase: - Use your common sense. - Allow yourself to say NO. - Allow yourself to be patient. - Know, that there will always be another dog just as good as this one, or better. - Be realistic in the regard to value - a good dog will have an appropriate pricetag. - Be realistic in regard to the actual dog - you are buying a living being that was never meant to be perfect and maintencance free. - Finally, you must feel comfortable with the person you are buying from. There is a difference between proper consultation including the odd follow-up and pressure selling. If you feel pressured, follow your feelings about this.

DH, re: your commentary: I've been there heard that, and I personally don't agree with it. remember my last phrase was "The biggest challenge is to set rules and limits to what the escrow will/can do which will take a lot of thought, no doubt." My current best guess is that once a dog leaves and arrives in one piece, ear tattoo or any id form and a vet appointment, escrow needs to release the money. All other things should be discussed, decided, agreed upon PRIOR to delivery and in writing.