just amazed - Page 3

I have received wonderful dogs from Germany because I have good honest people that will not cheat nor over charge. In fact it is cheaper to get a good bred pup there than get ripped in the U.S. by Breeders that just Breed their junk at times. At least the Germans have restrictions before breeding in titleing their dogs, doing hips that near I would say 85% U.S. Breeders never do hips at all.? I am very comfortable in buying, yes cost more because the Euro is higher than our dollar, but there are some Great Honest Kennels or Breeders in Germany that will send you a very good puppy to represent their kennel in a good way. Sorry, just my personal opinion of buying for I have been ripped too many times in U.S., Breeders sending me long coats sight unseen as I cannot or could not travel because of our business, so I trusted them only to get junk long or plush coats and one replacement for HD was a bad heart and died at 2 years.??????? It works both ways I guess???

There are some good breeders in the U.S. You just have to know who you are dealing with. From what I understand when you buy a puppy from Germany you generally getting a dog sight unseen with no guarantee at all. Again you have to know who you are dealing with I think that this is true of anything that you do.

I would have to say that my experiences overseas buying "sight unseen" (Have seen photos, but not the dog "in person") have been better than buying within the US, as I purchased a $3500 pup in December 2004 (pup born in Sept, 2004) and I still have no registration, and according to my lawyer, who spoke with the breeder "will never receive registration" although I have a contract saying I will. (Clear case of fraud) In ANY CASE.... I think you definitely need to ask around about the person/breeder/kennel you are thinking about purchasing from. You can do this through the USA club (regional directors usually hear complaints of any type against kennels in their area, and even some overseas kennels), other breeders (though this can sometimes be an envy issue as well with some breeders, though most I have contact with are wonderful people willing to help however they can), do a search of the dog's kennel name you are thinking of purchasing and ask the owners directly about their experience with the breeder (this is how I found over 18 people who have had the same types of problems with the "breeder"--and I use the term loosely in reference to this pathological liar--that Saoa has mentioned, and I WILL be posting about that topic as soon as the fraud investigation by our local PD is completed) IF the breeder is in the US, check with the Better Business Bureau (BBB.org) and see if there have been any complaints filed against them. If you purchase from overseas, I would suggest asking people who have had good experiences who they purchased from. (I can personally name two) You may also contact the SV and see if any formal complaints have been made against the person/kennel you are thinking of purchasing from. The SV may or may not have any information, but it never hurts to check. You can do this through info@schaeferhunde.de (attn: Sabine Leib), even if you do not speak German. This is by no means a complete list of things to do, but it is a start. I BELIEVE that we all should be for the betterment of the breed, even if it doesn't fill our pocketbook personally. If anyone needs help, they should be able to ask whomever, even if that person will not make money off the transaction. I always do my best to help anyone with whatever I can, and I know plenty of breeders who are the same way. This is JMHO. :)

Hallo everyone My experience of buying dogs from Germany have been an absolute success. I have bought a Hill v. Farbenspiel daughter from Engin Ulusoy last year this is his homepage http://www.poettgens-ulusoy.de everything about the dog was right, and he has been a grate friend sins. Just recently I got a Ghandi Arlett son from The Arlett kennel and he is much more than I ever dit expect, absolutely gorges. Frau van Dorssen was grate, the export and papers all in best order.

It's interesting to see an escrow service materialize. Especially after there has been a lot of discussion about it. The process seems simple enough. The service provides you with a neutral party that holds the money until the pup is accepted or time runs out to accept the pet. You are assured you will receive a pup and have some amount of time to satisfy yourself before funds are released. I would like to have access to all the terms without registering before I register. I didn't register so maybe there is a bunch of info on the following page I didn't see. There are some situations where this service could supplement a transaction but from my experience there is a bunch of stuff that can go wrong outside receive and check period. Paperwork is probably the biggest. Chances are your papers will not come with the pup. This may fall outside the extended period. What then? Seller has the money you have no papers. Maybe there is a feedback system that could ban someone from the service if there was too much negative feedback. Maybe the agreement could be papers sent to the escrow service as the money is being sent and when both arrive the pup is shipped. What about hip and health guarantees. They will fall outside an acceptance period. This could be a problem but not covered in the service. The service can't protect from everything. When the pup is shipped over and it dies. Whose puppy is it? Does the seller get the money as it was paid in full and ownership transferred legally at that time so the pup was shipped by the new owner or is it the sellers puppy until it arrives alive and well. Acceptance of a living animal is one thing but where is the responsibility or loss line drawn when the going gets tough? Who arbitrates this situation? Who pays for it? Buyer? Seller? Escrow service? When the pup arrives and it's not really what we wanted????? The picture was a little better than the smelly poop covered thing that wouldn't come out of it's crate looked when it arrived situation...... Just hose it off and send it back.?.?.? Who pays to ship the dog back? Where is the physical/health acceptance line drawn. Dogs as healthy as a horse. But look at that head,!?*&,geez, what a pin head,!*?>).... hey doc this sucker is a looser. How bout saying he has a gastronomically allergic condition that was inherited form his mothers left uncle? Can you help me out here?

Con't. The biggie is what happens when there is a grey area where one party says money should be released because and the other says it shouldn't. There's probably a disclaimer in the agreement that says if we screw up it not our problem, sorry. But how is a dispute handled? What's the process and who pays? What if an ear was up in the picture but being stuffed in a crate made it go down for a few days. The ears not up I don't want the pup. The ear was up when I shipped it, just look at the picture. Who gets the money, who pays the shipping, who settles the argument without getting sued? I guess the whole concept is a little awkward. With the invention of the internet we have the push a button and get a box concept. Want a wife??? Hey looka here Festus. Click on this picture and this girl form that foreign country will be shipped to you as your wife. From the picture it looks like she can cook and clean and hold a professional position and raise the kids, sure why not. I guess if you expectations are low enough anything can be OK. I find expectation management with newcomers to the breed to be the most challenging. I have received many requests for a puppy, just a pet, big boned, big head, deep red color, something that looks good that won't be shown that will protect the family, be good with the kids, healthy all it's life, have good hips, not run out of the yard, likes cats, can do Schutzhund when I figure out what schutzhund is, and maybe do agility or search and rescue. Do you have something like that???just a pet for 500? I can only imagine the headaches involved in managing expectations as an escrow service. I'm not sure just how successful we would be if we selected our spouses from the high school yearbook. How many people actually wound up with the one who's picture they would have chosen? How many would have kept the one whose picture they chose? Dogs, like people, are living breathing animals with personalities, traits, genetic habits, and a whole list of things that one would consider when choosing a partner that probably should be considered when choosing an animal that you will spend 12 years and thousands of dollars with. But that's just me. It took me a long time to realize that there's more to a dog than just something to feed and take care of.

Oh Dog1 you are great.... Heather

Randy, you are a gem :o). The escrow site answers some of your questions in their FAQs, but not completely. Shipping for example is always the buyers responsibility, including the dog's return. If the buyer returns the dog collect, I guess the escrow service would then deduct the shipping from the purchase price sent. One would at least hope so, but it has not really been addressed. But all that is also be subject to an individual agreement the parties have to draw up before they conduct their transaction via the escrow service. I would like to see a few sample contracts on that site. What happens if the puppy or dog is returned, but it is in a different "condition" as it was when it was sent off originally? If it is returned mentally or physically "damaged", sick, or dead? What legal firm do they work with and will ultimately represent me in this matter? Is that escrow company actually in a legal position to be doing what they are doing? What amount is the company liable for in case someone has to pursue legal action against them? Etc. There should be more info about the arbitration process. How will a person from outside the US be protected? Whether it is a buyer or a seller. Do one or both parties have to travel somewhere for the arbitration process? Who will oversee the arbitration? What if there are language difficulties? Etc. What if something happens that was not covered in the agreement? There is a whole string of questions that are popping into my head that are possible cause for trouble later, the same kind of trouble that people have whether they are purchasing a dog with or without an escrow service. The process seems simple enough, the consequences may not be. Bottom line is exactly what Randy has stated before: if you do not trust the person enough to deal with them directly, then move on. Or hop on a plane and go there in person. What worries me most about using an escrow service this way is that the pups and dogs will then really be reduced to "just an object that can be exchanged on a whim". How careful does one have to be really then when choosing a dog? Just "order" it, have a look, not of any consequence to them if the "product" is returned and shipped to and fro several times. How many times will a dog end up being shipped if this becomes an acceptable process? Might as well allow dogs back on eBay...

cont... Overall I think the problem is somewhat exaggerated though. The people who have no problems hardly ever voice their good experiences. Or it goes unnoticed because few people see a reason to discuss it further if someone does post it. Overall the bad experiences are few. The few that are there get a lot of air time though. They are also brought up repeatedly, which then gives the appearance of many problems where it actually is still the same. See Kreighauser above for example, same problem has been mentioned several times now (not to belittle it, just observing!!!). People tend to remember the disasters better than the good stuff, and it sticks longer too. Think back about yesterday news. If there were only 2 minutes of bad news among 28 minutes of good news, the first thing that will pop into your head now is the fellow that ran over 2 kids while driving drunk (random example). That is what you will remember first. That is human nature. Are all drivers bad because of that? Only the drunken ones, and out of those the ones that happend to run over someone. You should also consider that at least an equal number, I am almost inclined to say a much higher number of bad experiences go to the people selling a pup or a dog on good faith. They accept checks that end up bouncing, accept payments that are never made and so on. They were so trusting that they ended up without a dog and without any money. Few of these ever get mentioned here either. Or then get very litte response. The very fact that sellers gets screwed though is the reason why they end up insisting on money first, then dog. Which then opens the gates for some of those that feel they must take advantage of that. And the cirle continues. Consider over 46thousand GSD pups registered with the AKC last year, most of which were sold. 20thousand pups registered with the SV, most of which were sold. Add to that all the young green adults, and older adults that were also sold. When you look at such large numbers the few baddies we read about here will amount to only a fraction of the whole. I am not saying that this should be acceptable, just that it should be put into proper perspective.

I aggree with you D.H. I have now bought 6 imported dogs 5 females and 1 male. Only one of the 6 was a bad experiance. But I will post something everytime I see that breeder selling something on this site. I don't want anyone to have that kind of hartach that I had to deal with, and still I am dealing with it. I have learned alot from that situation, and continue to learn everyday by reading this and other boards. You always give good sound advice and have some very wonderful posts on other subjects as well. I do know that I would hate to buy a dog that was advertised here and then have something happen bad happen, no papers,fake papers,wrong dog....ect, and then post something about it and have everyone know that this is a bad breeder/broker. If I can help one person not have to go through what I have been through then I have succeeded. But I do post what a good experiance that I have had and the breeder that restored some of my faith in this system. Because that is what it is faith.....and once you find someone that is trustworthy, share that info, so that we can support the honest people in the gsd world.....and boycot that bad ones. and just because you see a dog and have to have that one that the questionable person has, you need to think that you are supporting that breeder/brokers ethics and way of doing things. I choose to support breeders that are like Dari and her husband. They are honest and I have never heard anything bad about them. I can call her up 3 years later and ask her something about a dog and she helps me and gives me some of her valuable time....this is the type of people that we should support by getting dogs from them.....not the crooks...there are to many other good dogs out there...if we didn't buy their dogs then they would have to get out of the business. Heather