Shiloh Dogs(beware you may not like this) Dont read if your not happy with your life. - Page 9

I met a Shiloh once at a dog park in Spokane, WA. The dog was from a Shiloh kennel somewhere in Wa, ccan't remember the name. The dog was HUGE, just gross looking and while talking to teh owner about the supposed health benefits, he got into them to get away from the HD in GSDs. He said that this bitch he currently owned had SEVER HD in both hips and that he would never buy another Shiloh from that breeder again as they did nothing to help him when he had a contract with them. I told him to sue them.

I personally would never own a Shiloh- They're just not for me.

Courtney

I think you're right about the convenient confusion Sue.  For what it's worth, here is a picture of Sabrina. 

While not bred to standard, she looks like a (big) long coat bicolor German Shepherd Dog to me, not a Sarplaninac -



Sarplaninac pictured below for comparison -

For the person who thinks Fred Lanting is a GSD god, do you know that he was kicked out of AKC as a judge for unethical behavior? Just the kind of mentor maybe you would like to have?

And whomever the idiot is that compared things written with the Nazis and the Holocaust, maybe you and UglyDog ought to get together on another thread. How idiotic. No one gives a damn whether any one has a Shiloh or a rock for a pet. I happen to care that if you have a dog you take care of it for life and train it and socialize it. But don't compare GSDs to Shilohs or to other real and recognized breeds. As for people who go out and "create" breeds, smacks of all the idiots breeding every kind of small dog now to other small breeds so they can come up with stupid names and sell them to stupid people for huge money. Dogs don't need humans to get together and mate. It is only the unethical humans who care nothing for breeds who are true to their purpose (and breed standard) to do that.

Well I can't see why she had to add the mix . She could have just kept trying with the 100percent German Shepherds untill she found what worked to keep her dogs pure ,Health and temperment sound . Not all german lines mix well , every one know that either from their own or someone elses breeding and history . That being said she did what she did  . The new shilohs are here what ever they are mixed with . That Sarplaninac is a nice looking dog .It looks some thing like the Caucasian Ovtcharka. I cant see where that would help with the temperment at all. 

Sue: no, I did not add Bionic Black Smoke to the PDB. Click on his pedigree, and read my comments on this dog. They tell the whole story. I may have added in some of his ancestors, after finding out they were AKC registered. I wish I could edit those comments now, as I found out what I first posted wasn't true.

As had been said above, Sabrina's questionable ancestry is no big dark secret. It is available for all to read on Tina's website. However, unless DNA studies were done to PROVE that Sabrina was not fathered by a GSD, her actual parentage is uncertain. Just to make it clear: she was not bred by Tina, but by Don Baker. I'm not sure at what point Tina figured out her ancestry was not what was actually listed in her pedigree by AKC. I'm pretty sure most of these lines have died out, and are only present in the Shiloh breed now. I know they're not in my bitch's ped.

Didn't Abhay post awhile back about a man he knew nearly having a heart attack when he DNA tested his very expensive German bred GSD, and found out it was not pure GSD? Imagine what breeders got away with BEFORE DNA testing was allowed!

I don't know if Bionic Black Smoke is AKC registered, or registered with the ISSR, and I frankly don't care. He could be dual registered, actually. As has been said above, both parents have their AKC numbers!

Most Shiloh pedigrees I've seen list the dogs by their AKC number, if they were born before the split with AKC, and with the ISSR registration number for the ones born after the split. Most of the info I posted was for my own bitch's ancestors, and had verification from online pedigrees for Imp Cen kennels, several Shiloh Shepherd websites, and Tina's book, as well as the AKC dog lookup for the registration numbers.

That good enough for ya, Sue??

Oh, BTW, sue, quit posting confusing information. Samson was a cross between Giant Malemute and German Shepherd. His lines included a couple of white GSD's who had starred in movies, and also London's (The Littlest Hobo) lines. I think he may have been related to the Chinook dogs: http://www.chinookkennel.org/  but I'm not sure.

If he is not a registered GSD he needs to be OFF this database.  PERIOD.  This is a Pedigree Database for the German Shepherd Dog.  By definition.  So a mixed breed mutt does NOT belong here.  I don't care if it's a Shiloh or a Sheltie or a hero Pekingese, it does NOT belong here and should be removed.  

Why not call them ShyMals, which is what they are and go put them on the Labradoodle and Puggle database somewhere where they belong, but not here.

I still want to know what "CV CH" means.

I did read your post.  I don't give a flying hoot what you think is "fascinating."  I don't care who bred them.  This is NOT a chapter in GSD history.  No how, no way.  Do you think that all the times GSD and collies were mixed that that is "a fascinating chapter in GSD history"?  It has nothing to do with GSD history.  The fact that some guy named Don Baker had some mongrels he called "Texas Woolies" has NOTHING to do with either this breed database or the history of the German Shepherd Dog breed. 

Go to the National Beagle Club of America and put up some Puggle pedigrees and tell them that the Puggles should be there because they are "a fascinating chapter" in Beagle history.  And I guess you also think that The Labrador Retriever Club, Inc. and the Poodle Club of America, Inc. should both be compiling and publishing Labradoodle "pedigrees"?  This is the SAME THING.  If the Puggle and Labradoodle people want to create those histories, fine.  But leave those breeds alone.  Same here.

This is priceless (and oh so very typical):  "When she DID outcross to a non-GSD, she had the decency to split with the AKC, and not try to pass off mixes as pure GSD's."

Uh, when she bred mongrels they were ineligible to be registered with the AKC, dear.  She had no decision about "splitting" to make - the dogs were NOT able to be part of AKC.  So she didn't try to "pass off mixes as pure GSD's"?  Oh, how noble of her.
Like it was her decision.  As I recall, since I was around back then and remember reading all her ads in Dog World magazine,and remember reading a number or articles on Shilohs, I believe she actually did try to pass them off as GSDs for awhile.  It wasn't until people began asking her a lot of uncomfortable questions that Ms. Barber decided she was "leaving" the AKC (what a joke) and starting her own breed.

I simply ignore a lot of the nonsense on this board, but when it gets to the point of people posting "pedigrees" of non-GSDs on a German Shepherd Dog PEDIGREE DATABASE, I draw the line.  It doesn't matter if SOME ancestors were registered.  That is not the point of this db.  

Wow, I have rarely encountered anyone with such a closed mind!  Puggles and Labradoodles? Good lord...

Let me explain a few facts about 'purebred' GSD's and purebred dogs in general.

ALL the Baker dogs had AKC papers. As Don Baker has been quoted as saying, "Paper don't refuse ink!"

You think this was a unique occurence?

Try telling that to  Abhay's friend, who THOUGHT he was getting a purebred GSD.

I've also heard that there's a genetic problem somewhere in the GSD genome. It first appeared in an area of Europe where it had, until then, been confined to another herding breed, one that was ancestral to the GSD. I don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out just how it got into the GSD bloodline. Just a little more friggin' in the riggin' and some fancy paperwork, and there ya go!  Some hybrid vigour sneakily added to the GSD genome!

OMG, the world's going to end! We MUST hunt these dogs down, and STRIKE THEM FROM THE RECORD!!

Terrible having skeletons like that in the closet, isn't it? 


I am willing to bet this sort of thing has happened in nearly every breed of supposedly purebred dog. Now that DNA testing is becoming mandatory, however, it's pretty hard to get away with.

I'm not saying I approve of it, or condone it. I don't. Any dog club in the world would ban you for life if they caught you doing this. I'm just saying it has happened, and will probably continue to happen in places where DNA testing isn't required. And it doesn't freak me out, the way it does you, Tess.  Just about every breed of dog there is started out as a mutt of questionable ancestry, including our beloved GSD.