Vegas du Haut Mansard takes it away again, Sieger Ulm 2009 - Page 1

Are these dogs from your list legendary ??? You have to know the facts better !! This is nothing else than bullshit. Of course its great that a Working line male finally can show a class also.  BUT:

The only dogs that deserves too be called legendary is dogs like: Horand Grafath (the first), Uran v Wildsteiger Land (the best GSD 1900-2000), several dogs frome th Q-litters Arminius and wienerau, Jeck v Noricum, Zamb vd Wienerau, Ulk v Arlett and Zamp v Thermodos. These are historical dogs with big influence and importans for the breed. Also I want to include Santo v Haus Ziegelmeyer (Kommisar Rex) for his programs that has been the best ad for the German Shepherd Dogs for many many years (not a breeding male).

This is a ver interesting topic i must admit.I am a lover of both sides of the table. I train and work some of the very best dogs in the states if not in the world every week. I also own and handle my own show dogs. I myself have been leaning more to the working side simple because my desire to now compete at a higher level in schutzhund.  That all being said. I find it very funny that the one working dog that you mentioned is in my opinion the worst one for the breed. Jantie have you taken anytime to research Javir or his progeny? Talk to any of the breeders and people that train with him? I have spoken to several trainers and judges and people that get world wide accolades for the work in the sport. They all told me the positive and negative about this male. After my research i personally would very very very cautious when getting anything from him. We will talk about just 2 issues since this is the seiger show and each dog should be showcases in my opinion 2 things. Production of structure and temperament. It a known fact that elbows are a issue of concern when breeding to this dog as well as the nerves he produces on the pups. He thows pups with lots of drives but useless nervy drive. The kind that doesn't make much for good family pets or can function in normal none sport life. also loose ligaments and bad elbows all fall under caution for breeding in my mind. My point is the dogs that should be placed up there working or show simply aren't being promoted to the top. That is just my perspective and views as well.


Ceddy