Housing.. Vereinsboxen and Dog Carrier Kennels (Portable) - Page 5

by DDR-DSH on 03 February 2007 - 04:02 Posts: 536 Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 01:23 am When I bought Ufo from the Kuhn brothers (actually Adam Kuhn) he told me that there were issues with the dog but he gave me a bit of bad advice.. He told me that if I was just "nice" to the dog, that maybe things would work out. Well, after the dog had been with me alreayd ten days, I tried that, and ended up with 50 stitches in my skin and muscle of my forearm, and a broken tooth, to boot! I just went into his run to pet him and get to know him, but afterwards (when I learned more about wolf behavior), I realized that I had crossed the line on canine-etiquette several times at once that night. There are things you do not do with a truly alpha canine.. Like get down on their level (eye to eye) and touch the top of their shoulders. Nor do you enter "their" space, especially when they have a bitch in with them (not in heat). I got my ass royally kicked that night and I was lucky to get out alive or without more serious damage than I got. But please do not so quickly think that I caused the offense to bring about my own problems that night But anything that has a survival instinct can be respectful or even fearful of the right person. Ufo did have a TON of fighting drive, no doubt, and he relished a good fight with a man. After I had put his lights out a couple of times and gavin him occasional reminders of my absolute authority, my Ufo acted like a kitten with me. For the first time, he actually became even cuddly and affectionate.. After I had essentially come within a hair's breadth of killing him by choking the breath out of him, several times!* I could handle him with the greatest ease, and a very light touch and seldom even a correction.. But only because I had previously really bested him so completely! If it EVER came to a point where he saw that I was helpless and unable to control him, I don't think that there would have been any loyalty or fidelity there, at all. I could easily be in danger again with him. And this is very characteristic of these dogs. They often show no indication of their treachery, early on, but wait for their opportunity to jump you when you least expect it. From an would-be dominant (alpha) wolf's point of view, this is not "treachery", nor is it "crazy".. It's just clever to wait until the best opportunity to make a full-on challenge to authority. *Let me point out that I do NOT approve of choking dogs as a method of training. I have seen trainers that do this habitually and trivially, and I abhor it. But in Ufo's case, nobody had been able to even so much as handle this dog for several years. I have a WORN-OUT brass fur-saver still somewhere to attest to the fact that no one had even been able to remove it from him in a very long time! Ufo HAD to be choked out and shown that he was POWERLESS!!! Beating and fighting will never correct a dog like this and is abusive. Why? Because they are so pumped up on adrenalyne and endorphins that they do not even feel it, and if anything it eggs them on in the fight drive. In my experience, ONE MUST make the dog believe that they have the power to render them completely helpless, and the only way to do that is to choke them out until all they know is blackness. You only want to achieve unconsciousness and then you MUST give them back air again, or you really risk killing them. It may take a time or two, but by God that dog will get religion in this way. I don't know of any other way, and I don't know if it would be a permanent rehab, but I have heard of permanent cures.

by DDR-DSH on 03 February 2007 - 20:02 Posts: 536 Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 01:23 am I did want to say something more about the "choking" treatment, which I reserve for only the very most incorrigible dogs, like Ufo. When we did it we used a warden's pole, passed through a moveable chain link panel, so that we essentially moved that panel in on the dog and squeeze-chuted him. Further we let him back up against a wall and then passed pieces of broomstick through the chain link in front of his chest and above his withers, so that he was effectively immobilized. With a warden's pole you have extremely good control, anyway. Once that was around his neck securely, the panel was released so that I could go in by the gate and put a muzzle on the dog. When he tried to attack me, he got his lights put out. He got that treatment twice, for cause of trying to attack me, and in between treatments, he was allowed to regain full awareness and vigor, so that he would be able to make his own choices and learn from his own mistakes. On the third try, he actually thrust his own nose into the muzzle that was put in front of him. Most comical, really! I never said the dog was stupid. He was extremely intelligent, but he played from a different rulebook. Affection and treats meant little or nothing to him.. He just wanted to be the boss and to rub it in frequently. He loved a good fight and he'd be the first to try to provoke one. I never handled him without a muzzle on, and in his kennel he was constantly kept on a heavy (so as not to entangle legs, etc.) chain with which he was weighed in like a boat anchor and secured in the corner before I entered his kennel (then the muzzle went on). Everything was set up with this Ufo dog and he never had the opportunity to hurt anyone, again. There is no way that a handler aggressive dog should be given that opportunity, and handling them can be reasonably safe if you use your ingenuity and common sense. Don't take chances with a bad dog.

Boban vom grauen Monstab by LaPorte on 05 February 2007 - 04:02 LaPorte Posts: 226 Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 05:06 am DDR-DSH, I remember you posting a while back about how to collect from a dead dog. You obviously like to write. Weeding thru your posts, I'm a little lost. You get a dog that has already put several people in the hospital. You then claim that you were lucky to get out of his kennel run alive when you first got him. You then proceed to breed him and no matter which dam, the pups are admittedly crazy, but...you try just another litter, and maybe another. You then say that you had to come within a hair's breath of killing him, and that dealing with him gave you such problems that you once grabbed a stranger by the throat in a supermarket. You claim the dog had to be on a heavy chain at all times (you were very kind to make sure the chain was heavy so it would not entangle his legs), and that he could not be handled without a muzzle. You then give a step by step in how to choke a dog until they pass out, and are wonderful enough to remind us all to stay safe (ie. immobilize the dog) and to remember to give the dog air quickly after they pass out. You talk about using a hardwood broom handle over and over, and relate a 'funny anecdote' about twisting a stick thru his collar like a tourniquette. You say you haven't had a litter in 7 years. Is this related to an incident in 1999? http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/8106/CA/US/ If you are a different Janice Bartmess, I apologize. I'm sure you will able to clear all of this up if there is some confusion of identities. However, the fact that the timeline matches, the name matches, and the treatment is in question, it makes one wonder.

DDR-DSH Posts: 308 Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 Every time a dog would get on top of the others, KA-POWWW, I'd let him have it over the top of his skull. He'd be weak in the knees, and another dog would take the opportunity to jump on top, then KA-POWWW, he'd get it. Finally the third dog would be on top, and he'd get Ka-Bonged, too! We did two complete rounds like this. Every dog got it on top of the head two times, and then, as if someone had flipped a light switch,

Just to be clear, it is against federal animal cruelty laws to use crates as "primary housing" (meaning the dog is in it while you are work, sleeping). Not even an animal testing lab can use something that small. 

Many, many lazy people use a SHIPPING crate to house their dog rather than build something appropriate.  This is particularily true of collectors. 

Good point nocore

I would like to remind everyone that You Me and Everyone else can be brought under such scrutiny of the law and how its inturpreted , and have the same thing happen to you as what happend to this poster. I am not saying she is right , and I am not saying she is wrong because I have never been to her place durring this time.

The reminder is this.. Just recently when the VP was looking for a dog, and got a purebreed GSD and there was light shed onto the kennel where he got the dog , that breeder was cited for not having UTD Rabies and a stinky house. Who determines if your house smells bad or not ? It only takes one stinky diaper to stink up my house, I have to check the plug in's and burn inscense when some one farts or the cat uses the litter box.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/harrisburg_politics/Kennel_where_Biden_bought_puppy_is_cited.html?posted=y&viewAll=y


I know plenty of breeders that play the Crate Shuffle. Especialy small BYBs, and people that are doing SCH/PP work. People that work all day long and can't leave there dog in the yard to bark all day ( because they are driven) but can't leave the dog loose in the house all day because it will eat the couch , they have to leave the dog in the crate .

What every to each his own.. Can you please stop with the name calling and finger pointing ? If some one was Corrected by the Law - who are you to keep bashing them ? They have already been punished.

"Just to be clear, it is against federal animal cruelty laws to use crates as "primary housing" (meaning the dog is in it while you are work, sleeping)."

I don't believe the term "primary housing" refers to crating a dog while you are working or sleeping but would be interested in a source for this information if you can provide one.