How do you teach the dumbell? - Page 8

 Sue wrote: "Stephanie  I don't think anyone said force methods, tables, ecollars, etc., shouldn't be discussed"

Semantics.

duke1965 wrote: "i know you cannot show forced apport from the beginning  here"

Dud wrote: "Not behind a keyboard.  Like I stated earlier, an exercise like this SHOULD NOT be taught or learned from a computer screen"

Why not? We are having a discussion, not offering a college degree. I suggest there is more to the reluctance to show/tell how this is done than to chastise internet dog trainers. 
 

Wrong.  The comparison of offering a college degree and completely scarring a dog's psyche is absurd.  I personally have done/coached well over 100 forced retrieves and will not offer advice without actually being in the presence of the dog/handler team.  Let me know when you want to have an emergency appendectomy performed on you by a local cab driver while being instructed over the phone by the local plumber.

lol, lol Oh Duderino give it up.  Stephanie is too smart for all of us.  Right Stephanie, you guessed it, it's all a great big conspiracy, sure, the internet is a grrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeat place to learn the FR. lol,lol

 Dud, Discussing how something is taught is not the same as teaching it. And I am sure given your vast experience that you realize teaching does not guarantee learning. Again, we are discussing. What someone reading this thread decides to do with the information offered in this discussion is on them.

Sue, Duderino just admitted that he does not think this should be discussed because of the possibility that someone who does not have his superior teaching skills will damage their dog with the method.

Don C, May I suggest you retitle this thread: "How do you teach the dumbell-I know but I'm not going to tell the great unwashed masses, any of whom could not possibly figure it out without my coaching and are bound to reduce their pooches to quivering masses of unreconstitutable dogflesh"

Huh. Wonder how thousands and thousands of gun dogs are trained this way by hillbillies. Are they coming to your seminars Dud?

First off, there is no comparison between a gun dog retrieve and a SchH retrieve for points.  The gun dog retrieve can be performed any old way as long as it is performed.  It's similar to teaching a service dog the retrieve, I don't care how it looks, just get it done every time, no questions asked.  If that's the type of retrieve you want, have at it, you're going to get beat every time you set foot on the field.

Secondly, my responsibility as a teacher is to stand there and continue instruction until both you and your dog can perform the exercise consistently and to my liking.  If you can't, we'll stay here until you can.  You however seem to be a quitter, if it can't be done in 5 minutes, it isn't working and you need to go back to the Internet to find a different way.  Obviously you are not a teacher in any form, or at least not a good one. 

BTW to you, it's Mr. Dud

 Dear Mr. Dud,

It sounds like you are saying that it takes more pressure to achieve the highly choreographed, never varying routine of the SchH retrieve than to teach a retrieve that will most likely always have many variables (distance, weather conditions, type of game). Am I understanding you correctly?

So is this teaching responsibility of yours acquirable though financial renumeration? Might that not also have something to do with mums-the-word posts?

Sounds like you are arguing for  arguments sake,  and by the way, you aren't fooling anyone, Jeff.

I just lost a 2000 word + response that I'm not going to even attempt to rewrite but the bottom line is, many times I offer my knowledge and advice for free (to the chagrin of my wife) if someone is interested in learning.  I would almost rather train for free with an individual that wants to learn rather than work with someone who doesn't listen or try for payment.

 Looks like this is a hot topic. And what are we talking about Dumbells? Seriously? Maybe we should change topics like who's a better trainer Cesar Millian or Victoria Stilwell and lets really stir this $hit up. C'mon everyone. This forum is about learning, if someone says something and you disagree well let them F'UP, give your 2 cents and move on. What really is impressive is seeing quality video and respecting videos like what Gripman post. (awesome video btw).  He shown his product now if you want to give alternatives to your theories then post a video and show what your trying to explain. But then again what the hell do I know Im just a Dumb Hugo Boss Runaway Model (retired).