Motherline - Page 1

What constitutes a strong bitch line? What are some of the things anyone defines as a strong consistant motherline? In my opinion the bitch and her lines are just as if not more important than the studs because they pups get the sires genetics but they are raised by the mom and pretty much are completely imprinted by her. If the bitch line is so important why do people place more importance on the stud? One are some of the top bitch lines today or at least what kennels are producing strong bitches?

If you look at many successful breeding programs you will see the consistent success through the mother. There are many examples. You will find two types. The female that just made top dog after top dog bred to most any male, an example would be Feli or Dasti.

The other is a series of success generation after generation producing high quality by skilled breeders. These are breeders that recognize females that are dominant producers of what desirable traits they posses. Examples would be Osterberger land and Zenteiche. Many generations of success breeding to not necessarily the top VA male but the male that posses what they want for their female.

The males generally get the focus because they have a greater impact on the number of offspring produced. There is also a cultural thing where the male is the focus. Study success and you'll find the strength of a kennel is through their females.

Would you say Holtkamper See and Holtkamper Hof have a strong bitch line that produce top dog after top dog or are they like the Zenteiche lines?

I think from what I have seen more and more people are becoming aware of the importance of a solid foundation bitch not only for any given kennel but for the breed as a whole. As mentioned it is often seen that your big boy producers come from the same mother a good example would be Hella vom Mutzbach for Salztalblick who is the Mother of dogs like Paska vom Salztalblick
and Vanesko. These are big factors into why I got the girl I got.

Now I am not certain I am going to get into breeding her or not she is still very young and has yet to prove herself, I will make sure she is titled and in good health i.e. OFA certified before she is bred but in making the choice for the puppy I factored in the females in her lines.  She has Hella, and Bora von Granit Rose another strong foundation bitch as well as having multiple Karthago females in her going back generations. If I decided to get into breeding I would consider to myself to have a pretty good foundation bitch of my own. (saying of course I do not mess up my dog before I get to that point ;) )

Here is my baby girls pedigree
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=702242

Now keep in mind I am not by any means any kind of pro here but I did do tons and tons of bloodline research before I got my girl because I got so, so burned on my first Shepherd. I do believe that so much emphasis is put on the males because ultimately they make way, way more babies then the females do and a good foundation stud based on that alone could effect the entire breed, where as a good foundation female can produce a couple good foundation studs.

Off hand and to generalize, I would say the dogs follow the pattern of Feli and Dasti. Ginga being the phenominal producer.

Look at the pedigrees to see the difference. There's not generation after generation with the same kennel name down through the motherline. Here's an example of multiple generations.

http://www.zenteiche.com/#Blutlinie 1

I believe one of the  most consistent motherlines in the breed is that of the Kirschental kennel.  Virtually all of the females used for breeding by the Fullers can all be traced back to their foundation bitch, Blanka Mummelsee HGH, and despite the fact that they used outside studs of various lineage over the years, they have managed to produce a distinct type that remains true to the motherline.

here is an example of a kick-ass motherline.  best one i can think of right off the top of my head:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=472776


pjp
 

I can only second what Hexe has said - Kirschental must be the leader in strong consistent mother lines. If you do a pedigree search on here for Kischental the greater proportion of their dogs (and there are lots) maintain an own kennel mother line. Many with good working titles and especially HGH.

They always strike me as not breeding for the immediate litter per se but rather for maintaining & improving the blood line.

Cheers,

Andy B

ziegenfarm, I agree that what you've posted is a terrific lineage, with strong bitches generation after generation, but in no way does this constitute a mother LINE--there's no continuity there. The closest one comes to a motherline in this pedigree would be the vom Itzal bitches many, many generations back, and that quickly comes to an end in this pedigree after three generations.

Agree with you Hexe.  Fabulous pedigree though zigenfarm. 
I'm wrestling with this same issue.  I have gone back to the old schutzhund magazines, the mid 90's and there are some fantastic articles and interviews with some of the builders of the great lines of korbelback, kerchental, tiekerhook, etc.  Everyone,  I can't stress this more, everyone center their program on the female.  After breeding her, they ALL kept a female from the line.  They all emphasize the importance of the bitch.  Some even go as far as 80/20, bitch v male.  What they look for on the male-good structure, health, fighting heart, a long line of all of this in the pedigree.  On the bitches side, same thing but more emphasis on the character of the bitch....whatever that means.  She must have character...I keep seeing this quote over and over.  The bitch must be tested to see the character.  The male, they the breeders were not so much on the points of the male.  One other thing, they all talked about staying within their lines, not mixing them up the way we see them today.  Selection of pups from the breeding, centered on observation from day one.  How soon they move to the nipple, do they fight hard for a place on the teats, etc.  evaluation everyday.  Dark puppies over lighter ones. 

Sorry, that's all I can add.