This is a placeholder text
Group text
by judron55 on 07 July 2011 - 17:07
I know 1 quietly returned around here......
by Dog1 on 07 July 2011 - 17:07
I'll wager former USA members still like the organization. I certainly do. It's the same organization as the WDA. They have the same dogs, they offer the exact same services, they use the same judges, they even have a combined international team doing the same event. Why would anyone that's a German Shepherd enthusiast not like the organization?
You just have to sit back and decide what makes sense. Does it make sense to limit yourself to USCA events exclusively? Not for me. I want to work within the rules and support the few clubs left that bother to put on events before they're all gone.
More clubs joining USA? That's great too. We need more clubs. I wish they would start putting on events. I drove 1,100 miles to participate in my last event. I'm down to 3 events a year.
Up the entry fee? Well the 2010 USA sieger show had about 240 entries down about 20% or more from 2009. Same area, same economy. 2011 had how many entries? Does the club need any less? Their annual budget shows 35,000 income down from 40,000 the previous year. Can you make 35,000 profit on a show with 240 entries? Will sponsors continue to support such events as the entries go down? They shot themselves in the foot and it healed. Do they really need to shoot themselves again? For what?
Close a loophole? So the club level participation goes away? That's the very set of circumstances that caused the rules to bend in the first place. Why would they want to do that? How many clubs will continue to put on events when a significant portion of their entries are not able to enter? How many clubs will continue to hold events when the club members have to dig into their personal pockets to finish paying the expenses of the event? What happens when that happens?
The USA club in my area that had been active for 8 years went belly up after their regional show didn't pay the expenses and the members had to personally pay for the loss. Who wants a ticket on that disaster train?
As I recall Nia, You were one of the ones that saw the flaws in the JA and made a motion to amend the bylaws. Good for you! It made sense. There was a lot of support from the people that just want to do dog stuff. It didn't pass for whatever set of reasons.
The GSD community has moved on and USA is left with the black eye of the JA. It's OK. The rules were changed to navigate around it. You just need a law degree and monthly interpretation updates to stay on top of it as this thread demonstrates.
The most sensible navigation tool is co ownership. Good opportunity to team up on a good prospect. The GSD is a team sport anyway, now is a good time to team up.
You just have to sit back and decide what makes sense. Does it make sense to limit yourself to USCA events exclusively? Not for me. I want to work within the rules and support the few clubs left that bother to put on events before they're all gone.
More clubs joining USA? That's great too. We need more clubs. I wish they would start putting on events. I drove 1,100 miles to participate in my last event. I'm down to 3 events a year.
Up the entry fee? Well the 2010 USA sieger show had about 240 entries down about 20% or more from 2009. Same area, same economy. 2011 had how many entries? Does the club need any less? Their annual budget shows 35,000 income down from 40,000 the previous year. Can you make 35,000 profit on a show with 240 entries? Will sponsors continue to support such events as the entries go down? They shot themselves in the foot and it healed. Do they really need to shoot themselves again? For what?
Close a loophole? So the club level participation goes away? That's the very set of circumstances that caused the rules to bend in the first place. Why would they want to do that? How many clubs will continue to put on events when a significant portion of their entries are not able to enter? How many clubs will continue to hold events when the club members have to dig into their personal pockets to finish paying the expenses of the event? What happens when that happens?
The USA club in my area that had been active for 8 years went belly up after their regional show didn't pay the expenses and the members had to personally pay for the loss. Who wants a ticket on that disaster train?
As I recall Nia, You were one of the ones that saw the flaws in the JA and made a motion to amend the bylaws. Good for you! It made sense. There was a lot of support from the people that just want to do dog stuff. It didn't pass for whatever set of reasons.
The GSD community has moved on and USA is left with the black eye of the JA. It's OK. The rules were changed to navigate around it. You just need a law degree and monthly interpretation updates to stay on top of it as this thread demonstrates.
The most sensible navigation tool is co ownership. Good opportunity to team up on a good prospect. The GSD is a team sport anyway, now is a good time to team up.
by Sheesh on 07 July 2011 - 18:07
I could not care less about anyone's personal agenda and the politics of the mess. A pissing comtest that ended up with someone pissing on their own foot, and then attempting to remedy it. I want to train and trial and show, and I refuse to join any club that demands I not join another. That is just ridiculous. Forming a club takes time, money, and dedicated members.
Theresa
by Rik on 07 July 2011 - 18:07
Emotions were pretty high with the JA. when things cooled off, I think it came down to (at least for me) is that all I want to do is show/train my dogs.
maybe some (dual members) hoped that if enough noise was made, things might change. I know I did.
personally, I do not feel 2 organizations in the U.S. is a bad thing. I like WDA and the way it is set up, but one would be foolish to ever think GSDCA has the well fare of the GSD at heart. The fact that it is GSDCA/WDA is a little worrisome, but it seems that the founders of WDA were able to put sufficient distance between the organizations.
it is what it is, so I will work within the rules. as far as taking advantage of one organization or the other, when I'm paying entry fees $75 - $100, it never crosses my mind.
Rik
maybe some (dual members) hoped that if enough noise was made, things might change. I know I did.
personally, I do not feel 2 organizations in the U.S. is a bad thing. I like WDA and the way it is set up, but one would be foolish to ever think GSDCA has the well fare of the GSD at heart. The fact that it is GSDCA/WDA is a little worrisome, but it seems that the founders of WDA were able to put sufficient distance between the organizations.
it is what it is, so I will work within the rules. as far as taking advantage of one organization or the other, when I'm paying entry fees $75 - $100, it never crosses my mind.
Rik
by EliDog on 07 July 2011 - 19:07
Yeah and people who do not have GSD's and probably never will, got caught right square in the middle of this pissing contest.
How about people that use the USA for strictly a sport venue that have alternate breeds have their own membership criteria. We promise never to involve ourselves in the GSD politics and you don't dictate with whom we can be associated.
Luckily I belong to DVG and my scorebooks are valid wherever I go. I will never understand why USA would require that a scorebook isued by another organization be certified by them. It's not like the have access to any databases other than their own to verify anything.
Keith
How about people that use the USA for strictly a sport venue that have alternate breeds have their own membership criteria. We promise never to involve ourselves in the GSD politics and you don't dictate with whom we can be associated.
Luckily I belong to DVG and my scorebooks are valid wherever I go. I will never understand why USA would require that a scorebook isued by another organization be certified by them. It's not like the have access to any databases other than their own to verify anything.
Keith
by Mystere on 07 July 2011 - 19:07
Ron,
Yes, there was one in your area that left with a LOT of sturm und drang, all kinds of noise and posturing. Then, came very quietly back to USA. As I said in Carson City, some of our members just don't have the courage we expect our dogs to have.
Then, there are those individuals who are firmly on the fence. They maintained their membership in both org, aren't spouting off on the internet condemning either, certainly not plotting to pimp one or the other. I have a lot more respect for those folks, when they say that they just want to train their dogs. People tend to forget that their actions can, and often do, speak volumes.
Yes, I made a proposal to alter the JA to what I believed the measure should have been. It was the same proposal I made in Iowa when JA was first discussed. It did not fail for "whatever reason."
Yes, there was one in your area that left with a LOT of sturm und drang, all kinds of noise and posturing. Then, came very quietly back to USA. As I said in Carson City, some of our members just don't have the courage we expect our dogs to have.
Then, there are those individuals who are firmly on the fence. They maintained their membership in both org, aren't spouting off on the internet condemning either, certainly not plotting to pimp one or the other. I have a lot more respect for those folks, when they say that they just want to train their dogs. People tend to forget that their actions can, and often do, speak volumes.
Yes, I made a proposal to alter the JA to what I believed the measure should have been. It was the same proposal I made in Iowa when JA was first discussed. It did not fail for "whatever reason."
by VKGSDs on 07 July 2011 - 19:07
My issue is that I need to get a show card soon so I can do a breed survey and I can't find any USA shows within driving distance (and I'm willing to drive pretty damn far, there has never been a WDA show in my state maybe not USA either at least not in the past 5 years). I just want to train, show, and trial my dogs, period. Don't care who's stamp is on their pedigree or scorebook (though I prefer it's an SV judge regardless of org). I can't find enough decent WDA trials or USA shows and now there is the JA to complicate everthing. I've got one dog with two different scorebooks and more paperwork than my house! So now if I want to continue to show and work my dogs I should have my husband become a member of one of the two orgs?
I also need to do an a-stamp soon, any advice on which org is better at handling that?
I also need to do an a-stamp soon, any advice on which org is better at handling that?
by YogieBear on 07 July 2011 - 22:07
Fact of the matter is - there just isn't enough trials for WDA in the South - that is why my club decided to go back to USA..... USA doesn't recognize a WDA scorebook and frankly I don't want to ride the fence with WDA/USA and Co-Own any dogs with anybody.............CoOwning a dog is a bitch and I would rather just deal with USA then a co-owner wanting my dog just so I might trial a dog in a WDA trial that is 12 hours away..........
Just my opinion
YogieBear
Just my opinion
YogieBear
by Hedi on 07 July 2011 - 23:07
Republican and Democrats of the dog world....Or is any of it either? Joining anything in this country is an EXTREMELY difficult decision. You join one you limit yourself, join the other and trial anywhere you run the risk of not having titles recognized, join the other you support the restriction of freedom to join the other, I am sure there are other things....anyway. I would be nice if you could take your dog anywhere and trial, regardless of affiliation. That would be awesome. But as it is, it is less than awesome at the moment. Guess the powers to be are happy with things..... 
by VKGSDs on 08 July 2011 - 03:07
My husband is listed as the "co-owner" for my competitive dogs so that's not an issue, I still have full control :)
One dog has a BH in a WDA scorebook but my understanding is that b/c it was done under an SV judge I can still trial SChH1-3 in USA if I want? I don't care if I'm not accepted into the "SchH3 Club" because one or more was earned under an SV judge through a different org as long as I don't have to repeat titles. Right now I am a member of USA, not WDA, but originally had a WDA scorebook and membership. I let that lapse and got a USA membership b/c I needed an AWDF scorebook for a non-SchH trial (yeah, as if I needed it to be MORE complicated!).
One dog has a BH in a WDA scorebook but my understanding is that b/c it was done under an SV judge I can still trial SChH1-3 in USA if I want? I don't care if I'm not accepted into the "SchH3 Club" because one or more was earned under an SV judge through a different org as long as I don't have to repeat titles. Right now I am a member of USA, not WDA, but originally had a WDA scorebook and membership. I let that lapse and got a USA membership b/c I needed an AWDF scorebook for a non-SchH trial (yeah, as if I needed it to be MORE complicated!).
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top
