An interesting article for anyone who breeds any breed of dog - Page 1

Dear friends I got  this article from other group. I think it could be useful, at least it is interesting.


This came over the sight hound list and it is an important read for anyone who breeds dogs of any breed. http://www.canine-genetics.com/Popular_sires.htm

Diversity,
not tunnel vision, has always made sense to me.
Moons.

Only TWO comments on this? Does everyone think their dogs are immune to the 'popular sire' syndrome?

Here's an example of it in action, though in this case, the heaviest inbreeding is on a female, not a male. And no, when a dog pops up SIX times in a pedigree, that's INBREEDING, even if she IS the requisite five generations back!

Bonus points go to anyone who can identify this very popular sire!

Linebreeding - 5 generations 5 - 5,5........................................... in V16 Dax von der Wienerau 4 - 4............................................. in V Häsel von Tannenmeise 4,5 - 5........................................... in 2X VA1 Uran vom Wildsteiger Land 4 - 4............................................. in 2X VA1 Quando von Arminius 5,5 - 5,5......................................... in V Xaver von Arminius 5,5,5,5 - 5,5..................................... in V Palme vom Wildsteiger Land 3 - 3............................................. in VA6 Odin von Tannenmeise  5 - 5............................................. in V Dixie von Tannenmeise

ursus - just for the points ;)

P.S I'd call that Backmassing

You got it!

No comments on the article, though? Does it not concern you that some well-known showlines have died at very young ages, which is one of hallmarks of too much inbreeding?

When I got my first German Shepherd 30 years ago, I was told the average lifespan was about 12 to 13 years. Now I've heard people say any years after 10 are a 'gift'.

Backmassing or inbreeding, it's still going to affect the coefficient of inbreeding, which is the tool breeders use to measure how inbred a litter is going to be.  I'll bet if you did a COI on Ursus, it would produce an unacceptably high number.

Just read it now and yes I agree.

My showlines dog was

• 5 - 4............................................. in V12 Irk von Arminius
• 4 - 3,5........................................... in 2X VA1 Uran vom Wildsteiger Land
• 5 - 4............................................. in V Palme vom Wildsteiger Land
• 5 - 4............................................. in Champion (UK) Vornlante Magnum
• 5 - 4............................................. in V (UK) Rosehurst On The Ball
• 4 - 3............................................. in V (UK) Rosehurst Ramana
• 3 - 2............................................. in V Int. Champion Rosehurst Chris

And that in itself was scarey.  Had his entire pedigree in winSIS and he had one bloodline all the way back - lost him at 8 to hemanginosarcoma.

Haven't had a shepherd reach 10 - the boy in my avatar is a total outcross he's almost 7 now but both his parents were dead at 9.

Can't go through it again hence why I've now got Cattle dogs.

Excessive linebreeding on Lance and his descendants helped ruin the ASL dogs. Just ask those who have been involved with that breed: dogs dropping dead like flies for no apparent reason. These deaths were likely due to lethal genes popping up, just as happened with the popular quarter horse stallion the article mentions.

Just think about it: assume your dog has a lethal recessive gene. In the first generation, the chances of it being passed on (assuming itt's a single gene trait) is 50%.  Then go 5 generations out, with Lance present in every single mating  5 generations back, and you are going to greatly increase the chances of that gene popping up. If I were better at statistics, I could give you the exact probablilty. Unfortunately, I'm not, but it's sure as hell going to be greater than 50%! That's the whole point of that article the OP linked to.

We need to take more care that the same thing does not happen with the German dogs, especially the show lines.

Excellent read - thanks for posting