This is a placeholder text
Group text
by Blitzen on 10 April 2012 - 14:04
Gwenith will not know that her dog has DM as long as it's alive.That will be determined at PM. There are other conditions/diseases that mimic DM and, as we've been told time and time again, DM must be diagnosed post mortem.
by Gwenith on 10 April 2012 - 14:04
The DM DNA test was released 4 years ago. Not one scientific new information has been published since then. We still do not have a way to confirm living dogs with DM. But I am certain brain MRI, showing changes in the brain would be a in the right direction. They do MRI's of the spine to rule out to this day. Which still does not confirm DM. At this day and age I fund it horrific misuse of grants and funds not to have discovered a full proof way of confirming DM in a living dog. I certainly believe the brain changes that would be seen in a MRI of the brain would be step in right direction. There is no doubt with every single neurological disease the brain shows significant changes. Why no research is pursuing this avenue is beyond me. Other they must really not be interested in getting to the bottom of a actual diagnosis. That of course is not a cure but it sure we nice to have it confirmed. The DM DNA test does not do that.
Gwen
by beetree on 10 April 2012 - 15:04
| At this day and age I fund it horrific misuse of grants and funds not to have discovered a full proof way of confirming DM in a living dog. |
Really? They answer to you, I bet. I'd like to see a picture of your stricken dog, to see if you are telling the truth. I have my doubts.
by SummertimeGSD on 10 April 2012 - 16:04
"At this day and age I fund it horrific misuse of grants and funds not to have discovered a full proof way of confirming DM in a living dog."
Guess we should have a cure for cancer and AIDS by now then too! As well as a fool proof way of eliminating Dysplasia.
Guess we should have a cure for cancer and AIDS by now then too! As well as a fool proof way of eliminating Dysplasia.
by Gwenith on 10 April 2012 - 17:04
That is exactly what I am saying. Any test is fallible. And I believe in all my heart my dog has DM. For a long time I thought gee he has something else as he came back "carrier" and not at risk. Until recently when I contacted Dr. Liz Hansen who informed me 2 GSD's who had "carrier" status have come back with confirmed DM upon necropsy. The progression my Blade has taken is classic DM. While it is in spinal cord, the spinal cord relays messages to the brain. I have no doubt that brain MRI would show changes in DM dogs in advanced stages. I have talked to UC Davis today. That said that is being looked at. I don't think genes are the answer. They are starting point, but they don't nor won't confirm DM in any breed. Even with symptoms. There is still only one way to confirm DM and that is via necropsy. Many of the "rule out tests" ate highly invasive in an older dog. Especially a dog with heart condition, in which his cardiologist told me last October he had no business being alive. That 90% of dogs with his heart condition have already gone. Her next matter of fact statement was your dog has DM. I told her not according to the Coates test as he was just a "carrier". She looked at me, like right, we will see.
Gwen
by Abby Normal on 10 April 2012 - 17:04
OK, here we go again. My patience is thin, I lost a very dear dog friend recently to DM, not my dog but one I was extremely close to and loved like my own and it is still raw. I have also lost one of my own to it in the past. There is no exclusivity here in having, or having had a dog with DM, it's no club anyone wants to be in, so lets level that playing field right now.
Firstly Marj, it is disingenous to suggest that all other avenues of research into DM have ceased. We know for one that DOGenes are exploring one right now. UofM are still continuing their research. There are and will be others.
Secondly I was on the UofM site a while back and it did mention the two carriers, and that these cases were being investigated if my memory serves me (and it doesn't always). I think that was also mentioned on the DSUrber thread, so let's not go the conspiracy theory route that they are hiding information, I think you will find that is incorrect too.
Also Gwenith I find your ideas a little odd. The brain is the 'organ' that receives the messages transmitted along spinal cord (stated very basically). It is the degeneration of the sheath around the spinal cord and the subsequent damage that interrupts/prevents the messages reaching the brain. Therefore there is no sound logic to the argument that the brain itself should show any changes. Maybe someone is looking into it, but I would have thought it remote that it will yield anything worthwhile BUT, I wouldn't suggest they shouldn't look, in the same way I wouldn't be suggesting that people shouldn't use the current DM test. It may not be perfect yet. Until something better comes along why not use it? It may yet prove to be at least part of the puzzle. I would want to go for a DM tested dog. If others don't that is their choice. I find it disturbing that people want to discourage testing without any sound alternative.
Firstly Marj, it is disingenous to suggest that all other avenues of research into DM have ceased. We know for one that DOGenes are exploring one right now. UofM are still continuing their research. There are and will be others.
Secondly I was on the UofM site a while back and it did mention the two carriers, and that these cases were being investigated if my memory serves me (and it doesn't always). I think that was also mentioned on the DSUrber thread, so let's not go the conspiracy theory route that they are hiding information, I think you will find that is incorrect too.
Also Gwenith I find your ideas a little odd. The brain is the 'organ' that receives the messages transmitted along spinal cord (stated very basically). It is the degeneration of the sheath around the spinal cord and the subsequent damage that interrupts/prevents the messages reaching the brain. Therefore there is no sound logic to the argument that the brain itself should show any changes. Maybe someone is looking into it, but I would have thought it remote that it will yield anything worthwhile BUT, I wouldn't suggest they shouldn't look, in the same way I wouldn't be suggesting that people shouldn't use the current DM test. It may not be perfect yet. Until something better comes along why not use it? It may yet prove to be at least part of the puzzle. I would want to go for a DM tested dog. If others don't that is their choice. I find it disturbing that people want to discourage testing without any sound alternative.
by Gwenith on 10 April 2012 - 18:04
How do I about posting photos of my dog. The person said he/she had doubts. I am disturbed at how many extremely heartless people are around. While my dog slowly dies. I will
Post photos. But since it is well know DM and other diseases mimic each other I don't know how a photo will confirm DM. I never said not to test. I tested all 3 of my dogs. I said it is full proof. And I feel there are clears that may not really be clear in GSD world. But I personally can not endure the mean nature posted by several here. Especially whoever said they had their doubts??? I was instantly attacked by several. And I was not attacking anyone here.
Tell me how to post a photo via IPhone ONLY. I do not use lap tops or computers.
Gwen
by Gwenith on 10 April 2012 - 18:04
My logic of brain MRI goes hand in hand with Dr. Coates saying it is ALS. Neurologist know there are brain changes in humans with ALS. If they want to claim it to be ALS in dogs then it should be no problem to do MRI of brain. If the brain is no longer gettin signal needed due to
Spinal deterioation then it should show up. It absolutely shows brain changes in all patients with MS. I know I have spoken to my neurologist about brain MRI. They don't order spinal MRI's in humans with theses diseases. The neurologist order brain MRI's. Any of you have neurological disorders? I do. My family does.
Gwen
by Abby Normal on 10 April 2012 - 20:04
There is no question that the brain is not receiving the signal, and so yes that could be 'measured', but how does that help. In confirming DM in a living dog - is that what you mean?
There are not always brain changes in patients with ALS:
The physician may order magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), a noninvasive procedure that uses a magnetic field and radio waves to take detailed images of the brain and spinal cord. Although these MRI scans are often normal in patients with ALS....
And MS seems rather more complicated:
One of the limitations of using MRI in patients with MS is the discordance occurring between lesion location and the clinical presentation. In addition, depending on the number and location of findings, MRI can vary greatly in terms of sensitivity and specificity in the diagnosis of MS. This is especially true of primary progressive MS, which may not show the classic discrete lesions of relapsing-remitting MS.
Having said that, as I said before, I would welcome any and all research into DM, however unlikely it would seem on the face of it, and would be the first to applaud a definitive answer to prevent and eliminate permanently such a tragic disease.
I am truly sorry for any dog and owner who is having to endure it.
There are not always brain changes in patients with ALS:
The physician may order magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), a noninvasive procedure that uses a magnetic field and radio waves to take detailed images of the brain and spinal cord. Although these MRI scans are often normal in patients with ALS....
And MS seems rather more complicated:
One of the limitations of using MRI in patients with MS is the discordance occurring between lesion location and the clinical presentation. In addition, depending on the number and location of findings, MRI can vary greatly in terms of sensitivity and specificity in the diagnosis of MS. This is especially true of primary progressive MS, which may not show the classic discrete lesions of relapsing-remitting MS.
Having said that, as I said before, I would welcome any and all research into DM, however unlikely it would seem on the face of it, and would be the first to applaud a definitive answer to prevent and eliminate permanently such a tragic disease.
I am truly sorry for any dog and owner who is having to endure it.
by Blitzen on 10 April 2012 - 20:04
Currently a vet in FL is conducting a DM trial. He studied under Clemmons. I think I've heard of at least 2 other studies that are currently under way or in the planning stages not including the ones mentioned above by Abby.
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top
