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by Blitzen on 11 April 2012 - 02:04
Marj have you ever even considered the possiblity that just maybe you are wrong?
by Gwenith on 11 April 2012 - 02:04
My intent was never to discourage anyone form the test. My feelings about the test are my feelings. If it works for you fine. For me I see it has issues for GSD's. In fact owning two corgis as well I am not convinced it is in that breeds best interest. My older corgis breeder refuses to use the test. Me I have used to test on all 3 of my dogs. Whether I feel it reliable or not. It is what is available. My dog is very sick, and I believe 99% that he has DM. It remains to be seen if he has DM or not but I have as of today arranged with his internist to do necropsy as it is ONLY way to confirm DM. There is nothing else available to confirm the disease except necropsy. I really just want more evidence. In the meantime this is at this time still a "free country" to choose to do what one feels is best course of action. I have been in touch with several universities today in regards to brain MRI's. Both Universities have told me this is being looked at. Late stage or not I feel that to be necessary tool that can be used. The DM DNA test is cheap, no reason not to do it. Other than I don't see it very reliable, but that is my gut feeling and opinion. That is my right to opinion and freedom of speech at this time. Who knows what the future holds there?
Gwen
by Gwenith on 11 April 2012 - 03:04
Blitzen, do you have any idea how long Marjorie has been involved in researching DM in GSD's? Much much longer than Dr. Coates. No doubt about it. I am amazed how supposed dog lovers have not even begun to learn the biggest lesson dogs should teach each of us. It is called "unconditional love and compassion". I am amazed dog lovers are so judgmental. Certainly not a charecteristic of our beloved dogs.
Gwen
by hexe on 11 April 2012 - 03:04
I don't think anyone with even the most minute grasp of science thinks for one second that the present DNA test for DM is the be-all, end-all, 101% accurate diagnostic tool for this disorder in GSDs, or in any other breed for that matter--it's far too soon for anyone, or any institution, to make such a claim. BUT--for the moment, it's what we got. The FLASH test wasn't the be-all, end-all, 101% accurate diagnostic tool for this disorder in GSDs, either, but it WAS the FIRST tool that was even available, and it gave us SOMETHING to work with for a start.
Between the FLASH test, and the tremendous amount of work that Dr. Clemmens and his staff did researching the disease and treatment options, and all the fundraising and educational efforts that Marjorie put in as well, these folks ALL are owed a tremendous debt by anyone who has ever loved a GSD, and even more so by those of us who have had a GSD with DM in our lives at one time or another.
WHY this in-fighting, though? HOW is THAT helping the breed?
Between the FLASH test, and the tremendous amount of work that Dr. Clemmens and his staff did researching the disease and treatment options, and all the fundraising and educational efforts that Marjorie put in as well, these folks ALL are owed a tremendous debt by anyone who has ever loved a GSD, and even more so by those of us who have had a GSD with DM in our lives at one time or another.
WHY this in-fighting, though? HOW is THAT helping the breed?
by marjorie on 11 April 2012 - 03:04
----> Marj have you ever even considered the possiblity that just maybe you are wrong?
No, because the science proves I am right- DM and ALS are two entirely different diseases with entirely different test results and symptoms, and they do not even mix and match.
They have nothing in common aside from being two terrible diseases.
Marjorie
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry
BE PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group
No, because the science proves I am right- DM and ALS are two entirely different diseases with entirely different test results and symptoms, and they do not even mix and match.
They have nothing in common aside from being two terrible diseases.
Marjorie
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry
BE PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group
by marjorie on 11 April 2012 - 03:04
Let me correct myself- I am wrong and have been wrong about things in life- but NOT this!
Marjorie
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry
BE PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group
Marjorie
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry
BE PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group
by Blitzen on 11 April 2012 - 03:04
OK....let me ask this once again - why discourage the fancy from using this DNA test and submitting DNA samples to Coate's project? It been acknowledged that it's not perfect, it should not be used to eliminate dogs from the breeding pool and is intended as another "heads up" for breeders.
by marjorie on 11 April 2012 - 03:04
---> How do you go about finding funders Marjorie? I am curious.
One really needs the support of the AKC and all the political crap that goes along with them and their organization. They are a very closed group and have their pet researchers, one of which is Dr Coates. Either you play their political games or you dont get funded. One of their officers admitted to taking Dr C's work from Dr C's web site, and *running* with it, rather than funding him. Nice, very nice behavior. Not my definition of ethical behavior. Even McDonalds wont let employees or family members particpate in contests run by the parent company! The director also awarded the grant to study DM to a researcher who worked at his very own university, after the work was lifted off Dr C's site! Need I say more? Either one is in the *in crowd* with the AKC or they are out. Sadly, they are the ones with bucks and without them, its very hard to get funding of the major dollar type, which is what is needed.
I compiled a book entitled "Things I Learned from my Dog" and sold it with all proceeds going towards DM research. I auctioned off walk on roles in the HBO TV Show, The Entourage, as I have known the prodcucer since he was a kid, and he is a German Shepherd , so he gave me the walk on roles to auction off, but it doent bring in the type of dollars the AKC has at its disposal. I, [personaly contribute heavily to DM research, but again, not the type of bucks needed to move mountains,as has been the case with Coates withte AKC and OFA behind her. Its all political bullshit.
One really needs the support of the AKC and all the political crap that goes along with them and their organization. They are a very closed group and have their pet researchers, one of which is Dr Coates. Either you play their political games or you dont get funded. One of their officers admitted to taking Dr C's work from Dr C's web site, and *running* with it, rather than funding him. Nice, very nice behavior. Not my definition of ethical behavior. Even McDonalds wont let employees or family members particpate in contests run by the parent company! The director also awarded the grant to study DM to a researcher who worked at his very own university, after the work was lifted off Dr C's site! Need I say more? Either one is in the *in crowd* with the AKC or they are out. Sadly, they are the ones with bucks and without them, its very hard to get funding of the major dollar type, which is what is needed.
I compiled a book entitled "Things I Learned from my Dog" and sold it with all proceeds going towards DM research. I auctioned off walk on roles in the HBO TV Show, The Entourage, as I have known the prodcucer since he was a kid, and he is a German Shepherd , so he gave me the walk on roles to auction off, but it doent bring in the type of dollars the AKC has at its disposal. I, [personaly contribute heavily to DM research, but again, not the type of bucks needed to move mountains,as has been the case with Coates withte AKC and OFA behind her. Its all political bullshit.
by marjorie on 11 April 2012 - 03:04
---> The FLASH test wasn't the be-all, end-all, 101% accurate diagnostic tool for this disorder in GSDs, either, but it WAS the FIRST tool that was even available, and it gave us SOMETHING to work with for a start.
Yes- exactly- a start, and it was started utilizing GERMAN SHPHERD DNA!!!. Other breeds didnt even have the allele which Shepherds had, to even have a change to, to even test! Dr Clemmons never made the outrageous claims that are being made by the U of Missouri, nor did he lump all DM into ONE category. IN fact, he always believed that DM of the GSD was unique. All breeds can get a chronic and degenerative spinal issue, but that does not mean they are all the same disease.
Yes- exactly- a start, and it was started utilizing GERMAN SHPHERD DNA!!!. Other breeds didnt even have the allele which Shepherds had, to even have a change to, to even test! Dr Clemmons never made the outrageous claims that are being made by the U of Missouri, nor did he lump all DM into ONE category. IN fact, he always believed that DM of the GSD was unique. All breeds can get a chronic and degenerative spinal issue, but that does not mean they are all the same disease.
by marjorie on 11 April 2012 - 03:04
--- > OK....let me ask this once again - why discourage the fancy from using this DNA test and submitting DNA samples to Coate's project?
Because I would rather see the money going to DM research that pertains to the type of DM our breed develops, and that is NOT ALS!!!! Is that really so very hard to understand?????
I am sad to even think of any dog of any breed getting DM, and the emotional toll it takes on one living with a DM dog. It hurts my heart that Missie T doesnt have a long time left on this earth, as well as other GSDS with DM, and all that money going towards a type of DM which our breed doesnt get. I want the money to go to helping the Jack Flash's and Missie T's of the GSD world. Let the Corgi Boxer people support their own research- we need to support research for OUR OWN breed!
Marjorie
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry
BE PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group
Because I would rather see the money going to DM research that pertains to the type of DM our breed develops, and that is NOT ALS!!!! Is that really so very hard to understand?????
I am sad to even think of any dog of any breed getting DM, and the emotional toll it takes on one living with a DM dog. It hurts my heart that Missie T doesnt have a long time left on this earth, as well as other GSDS with DM, and all that money going towards a type of DM which our breed doesnt get. I want the money to go to helping the Jack Flash's and Missie T's of the GSD world. Let the Corgi Boxer people support their own research- we need to support research for OUR OWN breed!
Marjorie
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry
BE PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group
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