i have a question how do u know a great breeder or a bad breeder - Page 11

Very good points, workingdogz.

Niesia, I'm not sure if all of your post was directed at me, but my situation was 20+ years ago. It is history. I wish I still had the contract because I really don't remember if it stated the pup must be returned. I just remember the breeder telling me that on the phone when I called to tell him that the pup was found to be severely dysplastic. Although it was traumatic at the time, it doesn't matter anymore. I learned from the experience and I wont make the same mistake again. Quite frankly I am doubtful I will ever get another puppy for a variety of reasons. I'd rather get an adult dog that is need of a home.

Joanro, I didn't say the intent was to scam. I simply stated that breeders know the average puppy buyer will not return the pup. I also know not all buyers are ethical and it makes sense to have clauses in the contract that protects the breeder from unethical buyers. Is this the reason you put the clause in the contract? Just curious. I personally know of breeders (not GSD breeders) who put specific clauses in the contract to protect themselves against unethical buyers, but when something legitimate happens to one of the pups, rather than sticking to the letter of the contract, they will work something out with the buyer so that all are satisfied, whether it's a replacement pup or partial or full refund.

I am sorry if I offended anyone on this thread as that is not my intent. I think this has been a good discussion.  Sometimes it seems that breeders only see things from their perspective and buyers only see things from their perspective.  On some issues, we will just have to agree to disagree (it is still my opinion that buying a pup is not the same as buying a TV), but I have to admit that some of the posts on this thread have helped me to see some things a little differently.

For those of you who are responsible and ethical breeders, who care deeply about your dogs and pups and also care about your clients, my hat is off to you. Being a GSD breeder is not for the faint of heart.

Staarchar, very nice post. The clause in my contract, however, states that owner MAY keep the original dog if proof of spay/neuter is presented. In other words, it would depend on circumstance. But it does not mean that return is absolute before replacement. I gave a replacement to an owner who complained about not getting a schH1 on a dog they raised and trained, purchased as an eight week old pup from me. They got the schhI on the first dog a few months later, and the second one is well on it's way to a title. Even tho I didn't sell the first pup to them as a schH dog, they were disgruntled, now they're not;) But, if every one received a second dog because they couldn't succeed with the first, there'd be a lot of rehoming going on. Those people I respected because they were committed to keeping the first dog, title or not.

Joanro, Wow, that is more than generous! You sound like an extremely reasonable person and very ethical breeder. Thank you again for your comments on this thread.  

thank u everyone that commeted on my post i really really apperciate ur comments on my thread that i posted. I know there are great breeders out there However there are bad breeders too and i hate the fact that a breeder cares more about money rather than a dog its riducles and those ppl shouldn't have any dogs or shouldn't even be a breeder at all i am really discusted on that behalf and note. However i do know there are breeders out there that are really really good and yes i understand they do ask alot for their dogs but i do know that they care about their dogs and take really really good care of them i am not nocking anyone on that i just want to make sure i  don't make the same mistake as i have done before.
  
I do know there is 2 sides to a story and i do realize this however the thing is the breeder i got my dog from she didn't care and will never care that my dog had problems i am truly hurt and affected by that all she cares about is money most of the time she charges for everything not to mention she has litters almost every month not saying there isn't anything rong with that however she claims all her dogs are OFA and honestly i didn't know anything about OFA i had no idea even what it is i know alot now and learned a valuable lesson NOT TO FALL IN LOVE WITH A PUPPY JUST BCS IT IS JUST CUTE AND STUFF, i realize that i should talk to the breeder and get to know and look for the hip certificates whether it would be PENN HIP OR OFA but when i got justice i didn't know anything about that stuff all i know is that i really really wanted a pup to love and have i love german shepherds period any animal i have i care more so about them then i do myself half of the time.  I guess my stupidoity got me a dog with Hip problems but i love him and always will even tho he is gone now it really hurts tho i miss him so so much and i am heartbroken that he was only 15months and i had to lose him due to what she did and breed and didn't care. I am now well knowlegable now on what to look for and what to not do. I thank all of u for everything and helping me and giving me the best advice u know. I do understand that there are tons of dogs in a shelter and rescues everyday and trust me if i was able to i would adopt plenty of them but most of the time shelters and rescues charge alot of money at times too and u can bring the dog to ur home and not know anything about there temperment or back round and also if u have kids in ur house u dont' want a dog to bite them or anything at all. Not saying i wouldnt' adopt but i myself i would rather raise a puppy and raise it and keep it all its life so that i know what his or her temperment is and i they will love everyone.I understand that there are dogs in the rescues and shelters that have a good temperment and aren't bad at all and i am not saying that at all i just would rather raise a puppy and bond with it and have those special memmories with that dog. 
  
I agree with KitKatt breeders shouldn't guarentee any dogs hips they really shouldn't just bcs ur a top of the line breeder does not mean that ur gonna have a puppy that has health problems its just like having kids u can be perfect parents but ur kids can have problems even tho it wasn't ur fault or anything among that. I mean if u guarentee ur dogs hips that is fine but the thing that hurts me is the breeder i got my dog from she said she guarentees al her puppies and doesn't even care Jusitce plan out point and simple had HD i have it in writting now and his records not to mention whne he was just a pup he had Coccidia and tapeworm and gosh knows what other worms he had it was extremely bad he looked like he was amciated i mean u can clearly see his bones when i first got him the vet rote me an unfit for sale letter and certified it and i have it still i dont' know what i should do know he also diagnosed him with Colites and GI problems due to his intestines being so bad when he was a pup he wasn't healthy so the question
  
is now : What should i do about this whole situation????
should i take her to court or what should i do i mean i dont' think i should let her get away with something she did and lord knows whats not to say she does this to someone else i mean i understand i really really do that u don't always get healthy dogs but however my dog was diagnosed with HD and it was Congenital and not to mention that is in writting and also the parents weren't OFA certified she lied about that she truly did i didn't know anything about that like i said, but thank u to everyone on the data base i now know alot now i am truly heartbroken i lost my german shepherd and i honestly dont' think i should let her get away with things at all i honestly don't. I think i have a case i really do he was only 15months and was way to young to have any of these problems. I do know there are some breeders out there that breed and have no gentic problems with their dogs at all and they dont' certife them at all. I just am really afraid at this point to trust any breeders bcs of what happend to me. I will eventually intime look for a great breeder out there i do know and have talked with some but its just hard for me bcs of what happend to me. The breeder i got justice from clearly stated it was all MY FAULT and WHAT DID I DO TO MY POOR DOG, when clearly the X-rays show his hips are just terriable and that wasnw't from me at all i would NEVER EVER hurt my dog like she claims i dont' know whether i should email her and show her the xrays and the documents of his diagnoses nd see what she says or WHAT
 
PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME. WHAT SHOULD I DO ABOUT THIS WHOLE SITUATION RIGHT NOW i no longer have justice i had to put him to sleep bcs he had a GI bleed he was bleeding internally and wasn't eating and barely drinking and that is due to also the parasites that he had and the poor nutrion. After i got him i bought him the best puppy food there is and talked to my vet and they told me which food and i had him on that and he gained alot i mean not excessivly but he was gaining weight, it was just terriable he was so so small i am heartbroken about all this i really am. As i said before i do know there are good breeders out there not saying there isn't but it truly is hard to trust some breeders out there are doing this for money and thats all they care about they dont' care about the breed and never will and i just can't stand that, but i know now to talk with the breeder alot more and make sure of things but i hope everyone can read this and let me know what i should do about this. I didn't email the breeder his xray pictures or anything as far as his diagnoses paper work or anything bcs all i get is nothing but attitude from her and not even caring so please let me know what i should do here and please don't be mean
 
Thanks again everyone for everyhting and ur best advice

I really feel for you Jersey, the breeder I got my pup from has stooped so low as to lie and try and discredit me publicly just to get out of a binding agreement.She has posted a check receipt that shows a check that was never cashed (per her own bank) and claims she paid me. Some people will do anything to try and sell a dog and don't care about what happens afterwards. It's upsetting but at least you know your pup is no longer in misery. I ,on the other hand know mine is still in crippling pain and cannot do anything about it.

Also sorry to hear you never recieved this check, and that the poor dog is still in limbo.  Unreal.

Jersey girl, I'm so sorry to hear about your situation, sounds kinda like TH's.  I don't know what you can do except plaster your breeders name and your situation everywhere, as to save someone else the heartache, learn from your mistakes, and move on.  It sucks.
 Maybe someone else knows how to nail her arse to the wall. ;)

JerseyGirl:
Only you can decide if you should go the route
of taking your breeder to court. You will need 
solid evidence that she has misrepresented her
puppy to you, and that she is not standing behind 
her guarantee (if you have one?).  You will then 
need to decide if it's worth the expense that will
be involved in taking the breeder to court, as you
are not in the same State, so will need to commute.
It may very well cost you more than you would
hope to recover from the breeder.


TH:
I think I'd be seeking an attorney at this point.

If the pup is in severe pain, and nothing has been
done to relieve him of pain, I think I might also
contact the proper authorities as well to check
on the welfare and well being of the puppy.
And for the record, I don't give a rat's ass who
the breeder is of a puppy, if it's in pain, and no
one is doing anything to help the pup, then a call
should be made.

And please thank your son for serving 

If you didn't cash that check hire an attorney. Take some screen shots of ths thread, it may not have a long life expectancy and you will want to make sure your attorney sees what was posted here with your name.

A personal check would be easier to convince the court that it wasn't given to you/not cashed, not something that I had to fork over the cash right then and there. Since you have scammed people privately on civil matters as well, I thought it best to have an irrefutable form of payment. People acquainted with you had already warned me you would not cash the check and demand cash, which you did, approx. 6 weeks later, and then cash the check the next day. Why not just get an indemnity bond and cash it? Wouldn't that be easier than all this silliness? Am I to believe that after your insanity on here a couple months ago that you were just being nice and not harassing me for your money? Or maybe you shut up because you got your check just days after I got paid? Hmmm. 



missed this edit



For someone suddenly concerned with the dog, it's interesting to note that you didn't even send him with his pain medication. It's also interesting that I offered  let him recuperate with YOU when you told me he needed surgery (before I had good evidence that he was in danger in your home). Your reply was what sent me over the edge. You asked why you would do that for him if you weren't going to keep him anyway. Um, maybe because he would be more comfortable going through that in the only home he has ever known??? You have/had no concern for him, were nonchalant about putting him down (checking into the euthanasia rates while you ran Animal Control was enlightening) and haven't once asked how he is doing, not once. You refer to him as "the defective puppy you sent me" and don't even bother to say "hey, how is Corrado feeling?" So, to come on here after I've done what everyone told me I should never do (pay you for a dog you likely abused in one way or another, even though we had NO CONTRACT and you added a felon as a co-owner) and feign concern for Corrado makes me want to puke. 

Corrado's growth plates need to close before they can do the type surgery they feel is in his best interest. Again, I spent $500 further looking into this matter to see what the best course is for him. The surgeon pulled in another surgeon who had more experience in cases like this from treating rescues who had been hit by cars and the like. They feel he will have longer-lasting relief and more soundness if he is full grown when they perform the surgery. He is almost due for his follow-up xray to check his growth plates again. 



The PDB is really not the place for this, Cat. I cannot wrap my head around why you keep provoking me on here.