Why buy the entire litter? - Page 6

This has to be a hoax.. "are treated very well and worked and trained daily" "To answer, the pupps are not microchipped but must be at 7-8 weeks of age or tatooed" Sowe are now working daily and can drive by anytime and see them train AND work. We now work AND train pups under 7 weeks of age. I would not want a pup that has been taken away from it's Mother, that young. The journey of learning, has been a long one for me, purchased my firstrottie, taken from the Dam at 3 days, pups ended up at the studs for sale, the breeder was shy of her dollar, I called him my Tasmanian devil. In order to touch him without him going off on me, and I mean wild. I had to sleep on the couch, with him on the floor and while he was tired and sleepy, massage his feet, so he learned inorder to get a massage he had to let me touch him. He was never clear headed, or safe, I always had to be careful of his enviroment. He was not a fun dog to own, I always had to be aware and never relax with him. Just so no confussion, I did not pick him up unitl 8 weeks of age. But I blame his persoanlity traits on being seperated to young from the Mother and not handled enough. No rottie bashers please, but now that I have brought this up has any one else had problems with a pup/dog taken away to soon? I have and will never do this one again, so I have nothing to compare to.

1doggie2- Many pups are hand raised due to necessity or circumstances. I had a female surprise a baby copperhead when relieving herself after having had pups all night. Her pups were just hours old when this happened. The mother survived and healed up, but her pups had to be hand raised. These pups matured into some really affectionate dogs. On the negative side, as adults they were extremely handler dependent and clingy. This has been the norm with the occasional pup or puppies that had to be hand raised by me. I haven't had crazy aggressive psycho dogs from hand raising, just the opposite, clingy and handler dependent when hand raised. Martin

Martin, I do not know you and in some cases what you say is true. Rare people can handle two pups at a time. Rare people can manage groups of dogs without serious fights. But since I do not think you are involved in rescue, I think perhaps you do not know the whole story. It is absolutely true that many of the pups I get come from situations where someone though having two would be great, when, in fact, they probably could not handle one. It is also true that if one knows how to train, yes, one can train two and still allow them to interact. I have 25 GSDs, some personal, some rescue, and they all have to get along and do. But I am a very strong handler and the dogs know who is in charge. I watch them carefully so that things do not get out of hand. Certainly, when females are in heat, I have to do things differently. There are some breeders who try hard to screen buyers. I do not breed often, but I screen with rigorous standards and many people do not get past the first phone call. I know, in my heart, that they will simply go elsewhere to people who could give a damn about the dog and care only about the money. Even breeders who do screen sometimes make mistakes and in case you have not experienced it, yes, potential buyers sometimes lie and make representations that simply are not true. Unfortunately, when things go wrong, the pup/dog pays the price. I cannot accept all the GSDs I am asked to accept into my rescue program. I do not know where you live, but in my state, there are plenty of GSDs, many from good bloodlines, who do not have permanent homes. I think DiKah and Molly make very good points. Of course, there are exceptions, but I think you must not be involved in rescue and therefore do not see that they are, indeed, exceptions and not the rule. Either that, or you live somewhere where there are a lot more responsible breeders and potential owners. For 1doggie2 - I NEVER sell a pup younger than 12 weeks unless I personally know the buyer. Why? Because I make sure that the pup gets plenty of socialization, proper nutrition, know more about its' temperament and health status. I do, in fact, believe that many pups taken away too young who especially are genetically predisposed to be a bit less confident do become other dog aggressive when not properly socialized as pups. This can happen even later, during the first year. I think that even well meaning owners often take a pup home and isolate it, and then the pups socialization and learning to be confident in the world comes to a screeching halt. For some dogs, this may not matter, but for many, it does and it is detrimental.

Something smells fishy here... I think (and hope) Ana is just seeking out attention (IMO) because if she isn't, I feel horrible for the dogs/puppies in her care -- she clearly does not give a crap about anything but the $$$.

Well, this thread sure KILLED any Christmas spirit I had!!! I agree TOTALLY with Molly, Hodie, Blitzen, et al. I am absolutely appalled, dismayed and horrified that the breed now has THIS person around to add to its woes. Sharyn: you said what needed to be said. Thanks. Happy Hoildays to all, if you can avoid the nightmares wondering what may happen to these pups. Nia

Merry Christmas Nia, Thank you for your comments. When I read the first post by ANA this morning and then dealt with yet another moron calling me to ask if I could accept the GSD they do not want and have done nothing with (*including vet care, socialization, neutering, training etc.,) I just got so damned angry. Then I read what Blitzen posted about her work and it just made my spirit sink. Last week I spent yet another hour on the phone trying to help a woman who has a GSD she bought from a breeder in NE Colorado who blames everyone else for dogs who leave her with giardia and other maladies, including HD. This poor woman spent a lot of the dog, and has spent twice that on vet bills and now is wondering if she must have a broken heart and put the dog down. I think I can help her. We will see. But all these people who are so damned irresponsible ought to be forced to work in a shelter for several months. Maybe then they would get it. Then later I read where someone, a newbie I think, wrote essentially about "who cares" when people are less than ethical (be they trainers or breeders or whatever). If it does not affect her, so what? Well, damn it, it does affect all of us to have people doing some of the sh** that we read about on this board and others. I simply had to go play some music and remember I can only make a small difference in the world. None the less, I and some others who post here try very hard to make a difference. I bet ANA found a way already to spend what she made on those two litters. Month after month I read these boards and see all the new people come along, and sadly all too often so many of them do not have any real concern about the dogs or the breed as a whole. Then there are others who post here who breed and breed and find every excuse in the book not to even take back what they bred or do not otherwise care about what they are doing. Ethics are in short supply, and I fear it will never change. It is not just here in my state, but in the U.S. and indeed, the world, wherever a buck is to be made.

I am very big on social skills. This one had to be muzzeld to be taken out, sometimes that would not even stop him, he would just body slam. I can not even begin to explain his wildness, It was like having a raging bull. This son of a gun had NO FEAR, that was never his problem. He just plain wanted things his way. I never allowed this dog isloation other than kenneling him when he was about to get out of hand, I was always afraid of 10 steps backwards with him. I had 3 trainers tell me to put him down, so I gave up and just let my gut tell me how to handle him. I have seen alot of out of control dogs, but never like this. I did alot of obedience with him, but the "I want it this way" was always just under the surface. I got a sch male rottie after him, that was to much dog for me but got help, worked out wonderful (full grown male trained/vs a pup I raised, so I knew his buttons). It still was not the same between the 2 dogs. I know there are alot of reasons litters are taken away from the Dam, and it works out. I am just wondering if anyone ever had an issue with the pup/dog because of not being raised by the Dam and litter mates. I also always think it is not the dogs fault, it is the owner. I wonder thou if he just was missing a screw or 2, and I was just to stuipd to see it or to stubborn to give in.

hodie, I can fully understand your post. I admit that I was once interested in breeding but thanks to people like Ana it scares me to see what kind of cons and types of breeders that are out there in our society today. Just tonight I was taking a drive and went by a Kmart store and saw a sign " 411 puppies and grooming" and it made me sick to my stomach because I know for a fact that they get alot of costumers during theses kind of holidays. As much as we dispise ANA for doing what she did and no way in hell am I defending her.... theirs other people such as James and Gilda Anderson ( Wizard of claws) that deserves more hatred in the dog community. ANA is guilty but Mr and Mrs Anderson is far more guilty for selling sick puppies (Google up Wizard of claws and you'll see the first results) to the folks across the states. Theses folks also been broadcast on my local news station... you may also check them out at http://www.nbc6.net/news/6914038/detail.html

"I am not promoting anything. I was promoting the stud and dam when selling the pupps" BiPolar Disorder ?????

This topic seems a hoax to me. Too many things make this seem like pure nonsense. Someone's having fun making the board hot and bothered...all over a pipe dream. I suggest this topic be ignored.