Unusual use of an e-collar? - Page 2

I don't know, I can't for the life of me imagine "what the hell kind of dogs" are we training that require the use "shock treatments" throughout the body to get them to mind?
I see people want that "ultimate hard dog"for competition, but come on!
Years ago I had a horse that the farrier had to put a twitch on his nose to trim his feet.
If the horse moved, the guy would nail him in the girth with the wrasp.
Then he wanted to tsitch his ear, along with his nose. HELL NO.
Everytime Charlie seen the farrier truck pull in, he was outta there.
I mean really, when is enough enough

KItKat,, Jenni, Margaret

Borrow an e-collar and place it on your own arm and stim yourself at low levels (what most trainers use) before you continue the SHOCK Collar  ABUSE nonsense.  The anecdotal stories about ABUSE isn't  the tools fault. It's the morons that misuse it.

Thomas Barriano

Using electric on all parts of a dog's body; over rump for fast sit, over shoulders for fast down, on shaved area on left side of ribs for heeling, water poured on the ground in front of the 'helper' wearing electrified sleeve to prevent dirty bites in h/b.......none of that is training. That is attempting to force the dog into position through avoidance. Oh, and I forgot one of the goofiest uses of ecollar... Tracking. The dog is zapped if it strays an n'th of a millimeter off the track...that way the dog will " track" a perfect one hundred points in a trial. Yeah, right!
Ecollars are valuable in some situations during training, but the above mentioned ain't it. JMO

Reminds me of a story by Alois Podhajsky, who was then director of the Spanish Riding School in Vienna. His horse was very difficult to shoe, and eventually, they had to resort to sedating him. Podhajsky didn't much like having to do it, as he could still feel the sedative affecting the horse's performance the next day, so he decided to try an alternative method.

He worked with the horse daily, handling his feet, and gradually desensitizing him to being touched with the different farrier's tools. Within a few months, the blacksmith was able to shoe the horse without any problem.

But of course, we're in such a hurry theses days, we're always looking for shortcuts to get the results we want.

I know there are many legitimate uses for e-collars, but still the potential for abusing them is high.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: IMO, the more skilled the trainer, the less compulsion they need to use.

"One can never, through violence, cause the horse to perfect the manner in which it expresses its skill, but only by delicate coaxing and subtle demanding, between much praise and little punishment."  --Colonel Alois Podhajsky

I just pointed out an ecollar chases electric through a dogs nervous system, never mentioned SHOCK, but if the shoe fits!

You pro e-collar people are just crazy and not very complex.:-)
All the best
Ulf

Thomas, I understand your logic about the low stimulation not being painful to a human. But to assume a dog understands that it's not harmful is incorrect. Dogs don't have the capacity to comprehend danger of electric shock, no more than they can understand that having surgery is dangerous. That's why they get over surgery faster than humans, cause we tend to dwell on the fact that our body was cut open and another person stuck their hands inside our guts. Dogs can't imagine that. As for low stimulation not being painful or negative to a human; that depends on the person's tolerance to electric shock. For example, I was electrocuted while clipping a horse's ears one time. The clippers had a screw that was hot and the palm of my hand came into contact with it. I was barefooted, as I usually was when I lived in Florida, so I received the voltage throughout my body. The force of muscle spasms from the electricity going through my body and to the ground , caused me to hit the ground, like the found was a huge magnet pulling me to it. It took every bit of strength I could muster to reach my free left hand over to the clippers and pull them from my right hand, which was clamped around them and i was unable to release the grip. That was about thirty years ago.
To this day, I cannot tolerate the slightest electrical stimulation, such as shock from static elec. The experience screwed up my body some how, and I get whacky if I'm shcked even the slightest. So, you need to keep things in perspective as to how people or dog's react to electrical stimulation. A dog which is constantly subjected to high stimulation over and over again, I would expect to develop over sensitivity like I did from my near death experience with electricity. There are a lot of idiots who call themselves trainers who have no concern for what they are doing, long or short term to a dog when they use ecollar. Points are the lottery to them.
To this day

disregard " To this day" at bottom of above post. :-/

Joanro

I watch my dogs reaction to anything I do including the use of an e-collar. I can tell if they're stressed or feeling pain
If someone uses an e-collar at high levels?. It's bad training not a bad tool


Thomas Barriano
 

I agree with you, completely, Thomas. I'm giving examples of the morons who abuse the tool to abuse the dogs, in the name of training.