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by Mindhunt on 03 November 2013 - 00:11
Rocky, I agree on training to crate on command as mine are. Unfortunately, I have seen emergency scenarios where the patient became unconscious suddenly and was unable to give the command or ended up in an mva unconscious after striking their head. Or fires or other emergencies where a family member collapses and chaos ensues or the normally ultra obedient dog behaves as a dog (anyone who says their dog is 100% reliable no matter what is fos) and gets caught up in the chaos and high emotions. Thankfully most emergencies with dogs involved ended up with the dog alive and maybe not happy but ok. Also my dogs are never outside without me or another family member keeping an eye on them. As for getting a clue what first responders deal with day in and day out, yup, I agree, go on a few ride alongs and then talk. Or do a live drill where you are under duress and having to make split second decisions.
by joanro on 03 November 2013 - 08:11
Every body should watch prepers, ( better yet, watch blackout, or train yer dawg to catch the bad guy as he runs thro your, I mean the communities', yard,) then they'll be ready for any emergency....yeah, that's the ticket.
(sarcasm)
by Jenni78 on 03 November 2013 - 09:11
Rocky's post sure reads differently now that a mod or admin took out all the uber-bitter, hostile, nasty, personal attacks on virtual strangers (screenshots are a wonderful invention). Amazing how much clearer the message is when you leave out the trashy, hateful, ignorant remarks.
by joanro on 03 November 2013 - 10:11
Yes, Jenni, it is changed.
The insistence on owners 'keeping' their dogs in the house to keep cops safe is still absurd. I have an idea, pass a law that nobody is allowed to have a dog outside cause a cop might get bitten....that's stupid. If a cop is chasing someone, and that someone jumps into a yard with an aggressive dog, the the dog will catch the bad guy Before the cop gets in the yard. So, the cop KNOWS there's a dog in there, since it's engaged in biting the bad guy, thereby HELPing out the cop. The dog's owner should therefore be rewarded for assisting in the capture and keeping the cop safe.......
The insistence on owners 'keeping' their dogs in the house to keep cops safe is still absurd. I have an idea, pass a law that nobody is allowed to have a dog outside cause a cop might get bitten....that's stupid. If a cop is chasing someone, and that someone jumps into a yard with an aggressive dog, the the dog will catch the bad guy Before the cop gets in the yard. So, the cop KNOWS there's a dog in there, since it's engaged in biting the bad guy, thereby HELPing out the cop. The dog's owner should therefore be rewarded for assisting in the capture and keeping the cop safe.......
by beetree on 03 November 2013 - 19:11
I wish some other changes would occur, as well.
It would seem that the "insistence" to keep "their" dogs inside, is more advice for the locational-ly challenged. I really don't worry about LEO's traipsing along after bad guys in my back yard. In my case it is more likely to be a confused chicken doing the trespassing. Or maybe the front door gets opened by a kid and somehow the dog gets out and gets hit by a car. Always sad no matter how it happens.
So, I think we are talking about high density living situations where a cop siren blaring is common place and lawbreaker types take advantage of the land layout to escape pursuit. It is these situations where a tenant or homeowner would want the thought process to start that says... "Oh, I hear a siren! Oh, there is police activity in my area! Oh, by the way where is my dog? Oh, he's not in the bath tub with you? Oh, I will go bring him into the house and he will be safe!"
It is a wonder instead what we do see are people who only think the next step is: They will have to write their congressman the next day, to protest about what rights were violated in the pursuit of a criminal on their property. Since they can't stop the criminal for doing that, maybe, just maybe they can stop the LEO chasing him!
It would seem that the "insistence" to keep "their" dogs inside, is more advice for the locational-ly challenged. I really don't worry about LEO's traipsing along after bad guys in my back yard. In my case it is more likely to be a confused chicken doing the trespassing. Or maybe the front door gets opened by a kid and somehow the dog gets out and gets hit by a car. Always sad no matter how it happens.
So, I think we are talking about high density living situations where a cop siren blaring is common place and lawbreaker types take advantage of the land layout to escape pursuit. It is these situations where a tenant or homeowner would want the thought process to start that says... "Oh, I hear a siren! Oh, there is police activity in my area! Oh, by the way where is my dog? Oh, he's not in the bath tub with you? Oh, I will go bring him into the house and he will be safe!"
It is a wonder instead what we do see are people who only think the next step is: They will have to write their congressman the next day, to protest about what rights were violated in the pursuit of a criminal on their property. Since they can't stop the criminal for doing that, maybe, just maybe they can stop the LEO chasing him!
by Gigante on 04 November 2013 - 14:11
The entrenchment in the asinine is staggering.
Weak at face value: People who have zero experience with police officers that have never even (at a minimum) done a ride a long (such as gigante) usually respond in this manner. Whether it is due to a criminal family, a bad experience with an officer, or a lack of research/knowledge, they are all the same.
People who believe LEO, can do a much better job when they encounter pets are, criminals or their family is, or they had a bad experience or just simply lack knowledge or research ability. Boy, if this does not bring you back to a grade school'er brain waves. When you cant form an intelligent argument, or dont have one, demonize. I first learned this when the thugs on the playground took away the weaker kid's lunch you would often hear things like "because your mom is fat and ugly" as too the question why are you taking my lunch. Firing back with Im a criminal or my family is, showns me, that many have not matured past a mental challenged grade schoolers brain wave.
The problem with people like this is that they only know how many dogs are shot....not how many dogs are tazed/kicked/avoided. The likelihood of a great owner like Jenni or Gigante having their dog shot is slimmer than them dying in a car crash. Most of the owners whose dogs get killed do not have their dogs leashed. Or the dog attacks an officer doing his job. It is not trespassing, no matter how you feel about it. If they are chasing a criminal it is 100% legal.
People who cry foul on the automatic use of weapons on pets, dont have all the facts. This actually flopped into a accurate statement. There are no requirements to forward to anyone for a complete view of dogs shot by officers while on duty. If the requirement to document was available and made available, police shooting dogs in the US every 98 seconds would be the low number. The complete lack of compassion for the animals, the rights of the owners with the demonization of almost all of them, transports me once again back to a grade school playground. The fact that the kids mom is fat and ugly does not address why you are stealing his lunch. The fact that poodles and chihuahuas and beagles and the ever vicious napoleon complexed jack russell's owner is a bad person, does not address the issue. Is the automatic use of weapons on dogs justified and sound?. Can the number be cut in half with training or a less militarized police force or less use of swats assets for low risk enforcement. Just because something is 100% legal, wink wink, in some ones mind, it does not make everything associated with your actions 100% right.
Ride along ala caka. I dont need to experience beating the hell out of a dog from my neighbors perspective to realize that beating the hell out of dogs for discipline is counter productive and wrong. Automatically going to weapons on dogs is wrong, simple! The next time your fiance see's a 20 dollar bike being stolen be sure to tell him not to tackle to thief when he runs, because he could get a scratch, or be injured for life, automatically going to weapons would be more prudent for his long term health risks.
Everything an officer does in the course of doing the peoples will should be done with the people in mind. When you deploy we are good and everyone who is harmed by our actions is a bad person, so its ok, you are buying into jack thuggery. Anyone with that mindset is now no more worthy of respect then the two bit little bully who steals lunches in the schoolyard.
Weak at face value: People who have zero experience with police officers that have never even (at a minimum) done a ride a long (such as gigante) usually respond in this manner. Whether it is due to a criminal family, a bad experience with an officer, or a lack of research/knowledge, they are all the same.
People who believe LEO, can do a much better job when they encounter pets are, criminals or their family is, or they had a bad experience or just simply lack knowledge or research ability. Boy, if this does not bring you back to a grade school'er brain waves. When you cant form an intelligent argument, or dont have one, demonize. I first learned this when the thugs on the playground took away the weaker kid's lunch you would often hear things like "because your mom is fat and ugly" as too the question why are you taking my lunch. Firing back with Im a criminal or my family is, showns me, that many have not matured past a mental challenged grade schoolers brain wave.
The problem with people like this is that they only know how many dogs are shot....not how many dogs are tazed/kicked/avoided. The likelihood of a great owner like Jenni or Gigante having their dog shot is slimmer than them dying in a car crash. Most of the owners whose dogs get killed do not have their dogs leashed. Or the dog attacks an officer doing his job. It is not trespassing, no matter how you feel about it. If they are chasing a criminal it is 100% legal.
People who cry foul on the automatic use of weapons on pets, dont have all the facts. This actually flopped into a accurate statement. There are no requirements to forward to anyone for a complete view of dogs shot by officers while on duty. If the requirement to document was available and made available, police shooting dogs in the US every 98 seconds would be the low number. The complete lack of compassion for the animals, the rights of the owners with the demonization of almost all of them, transports me once again back to a grade school playground. The fact that the kids mom is fat and ugly does not address why you are stealing his lunch. The fact that poodles and chihuahuas and beagles and the ever vicious napoleon complexed jack russell's owner is a bad person, does not address the issue. Is the automatic use of weapons on dogs justified and sound?. Can the number be cut in half with training or a less militarized police force or less use of swats assets for low risk enforcement. Just because something is 100% legal, wink wink, in some ones mind, it does not make everything associated with your actions 100% right.
Ride along ala caka. I dont need to experience beating the hell out of a dog from my neighbors perspective to realize that beating the hell out of dogs for discipline is counter productive and wrong. Automatically going to weapons on dogs is wrong, simple! The next time your fiance see's a 20 dollar bike being stolen be sure to tell him not to tackle to thief when he runs, because he could get a scratch, or be injured for life, automatically going to weapons would be more prudent for his long term health risks.
Everything an officer does in the course of doing the peoples will should be done with the people in mind. When you deploy we are good and everyone who is harmed by our actions is a bad person, so its ok, you are buying into jack thuggery. Anyone with that mindset is now no more worthy of respect then the two bit little bully who steals lunches in the schoolyard.
by RockyGSD on 09 November 2013 - 06:11
"Ride along ala caka. I dont need to experience beating the hell out of a dog from my neighbors perspective to realize that beating the hell out of dogs for discipline is counter productive and wrong. Automatically going to weapons on dogs is wrong, simple! The next time your fiance see's a 20 dollar bike being stolen be sure to tell him not to tackle to thief when he runs, because he could get a scratch, or be injured for life, automatically going to weapons would be more prudent for his long term health risks."
Watching a police video on the internet is not the same as riding a long. It doesn't even take four hours of your time and could enlighten you to the true aspect of this job. You could probably ride a long every day for two months with the same officer and not see one dog be shot tazed---but will be chased or nearly attacked by many.
When there is a woman having a seizure and the EMS refuses to enter to help her because her dog may attack them, it is simple -- you shoot the dog. Human life is worth more than a dogs. The minutes it takes to subdue the dog could mean life or death for the women.
I understand that a lack of knowledge about a group of people can create a bunch of hate for that group--- once again, I urge you to do something (citizens police academy, ride a long) to knowledge you about police tactics. As I have mentioned, watching youtube videos of police chases and reading left wing news articles about police officers does not count as knowledge.
Sorry for the delayed response----I do not use the computer much. I think that forums such as these, you tube, texting, etc take away from real communication with other people. In Spain we do not use computers or phones when in the company of others and prefer to meet with friends than debate with strangers online.
Watching a police video on the internet is not the same as riding a long. It doesn't even take four hours of your time and could enlighten you to the true aspect of this job. You could probably ride a long every day for two months with the same officer and not see one dog be shot tazed---but will be chased or nearly attacked by many.
When there is a woman having a seizure and the EMS refuses to enter to help her because her dog may attack them, it is simple -- you shoot the dog. Human life is worth more than a dogs. The minutes it takes to subdue the dog could mean life or death for the women.
I understand that a lack of knowledge about a group of people can create a bunch of hate for that group--- once again, I urge you to do something (citizens police academy, ride a long) to knowledge you about police tactics. As I have mentioned, watching youtube videos of police chases and reading left wing news articles about police officers does not count as knowledge.
Sorry for the delayed response----I do not use the computer much. I think that forums such as these, you tube, texting, etc take away from real communication with other people. In Spain we do not use computers or phones when in the company of others and prefer to meet with friends than debate with strangers online.
by Jenni78 on 09 November 2013 - 08:11
If someone shoots my dog because I'm having a seizure and my dog is trying to protect me, they better hope I never recover.
Ever heard of a catch pole, guys? Or does that have too many moving parts? Takes so much more skill than a trigger? How about TRAINING people who frequently work in high-stress situations (EMTs, cops, etc.) safe handling skills for dogs who are (understandably) upset and may be aggressive? My cousin is an EMT and deals with many aggressive dogs in the area where he works. He hasn't felt it necessary to kill any of them, or even seriously hurt them. He's been bitten, but not seriously, due to some handling common sense and his belief that he's there to HELP- not kill the people's beloved dog while they're incapacitated.
My best friend's husband is a firefighter/EMT in a HORRIBLE neighborhood. I mean, bad. Like, I wouldn't go there night or day. He encounters dogs at nearly every call, and not friendly ones. He's never had to kill one or have one killed by an officer.
If you don't charge onto the scene with the mindset that you're the freaking Legend of Zorro, and you'll just shoot anything that gets in your way, it's amazing how much you can figure out and finesse, even with aggressive dogs who are doing their best to protect the owner. Might take a bit of teamwork and some brain power, but everyone just might live through the ordeal.
I've helped our local K9 handler subdue and capture a scared, aggressive loose dog (we think someone abandoned it) and it took a bit of time, admittedly. I understand that there isn't ALWAYS that much time available, but the continual callousness in Rocky's posts, the "deal with it" attitude that her fiance has the God-given right to shoot anything he feels like, to avoid even a simple scratch, I just find really, really off-putting and my K9 handler acquaintances and friends do as well, as I've had them read this thread. They're not loving being "spoken for" in that manner.
The mindset needs to be focusing on adequate training to avoid lethal force against ANY innocents, not that the rest of us will just need to deal with it when a cop shoots our dog in our yard.
Let the disliking begin................
Ever heard of a catch pole, guys? Or does that have too many moving parts? Takes so much more skill than a trigger? How about TRAINING people who frequently work in high-stress situations (EMTs, cops, etc.) safe handling skills for dogs who are (understandably) upset and may be aggressive? My cousin is an EMT and deals with many aggressive dogs in the area where he works. He hasn't felt it necessary to kill any of them, or even seriously hurt them. He's been bitten, but not seriously, due to some handling common sense and his belief that he's there to HELP- not kill the people's beloved dog while they're incapacitated.
My best friend's husband is a firefighter/EMT in a HORRIBLE neighborhood. I mean, bad. Like, I wouldn't go there night or day. He encounters dogs at nearly every call, and not friendly ones. He's never had to kill one or have one killed by an officer.
If you don't charge onto the scene with the mindset that you're the freaking Legend of Zorro, and you'll just shoot anything that gets in your way, it's amazing how much you can figure out and finesse, even with aggressive dogs who are doing their best to protect the owner. Might take a bit of teamwork and some brain power, but everyone just might live through the ordeal.
I've helped our local K9 handler subdue and capture a scared, aggressive loose dog (we think someone abandoned it) and it took a bit of time, admittedly. I understand that there isn't ALWAYS that much time available, but the continual callousness in Rocky's posts, the "deal with it" attitude that her fiance has the God-given right to shoot anything he feels like, to avoid even a simple scratch, I just find really, really off-putting and my K9 handler acquaintances and friends do as well, as I've had them read this thread. They're not loving being "spoken for" in that manner.
The mindset needs to be focusing on adequate training to avoid lethal force against ANY innocents, not that the rest of us will just need to deal with it when a cop shoots our dog in our yard.
Let the disliking begin................
by joanro on 09 November 2013 - 09:11
Likelikelikelikelikelike @ Jenni
EXCELLENT post, I couldn't have said it better (in a million lol)
EXCELLENT post, I couldn't have said it better (in a million lol)
by Hundmutter on 09 November 2013 - 09:11
Rocky still hasn't told us how she excuses those incidents in the
video where a catchpole HAS been used - and then the dog was
STILL shot.
Sorry, just because this is a MINORITY event does not make it OK.
Oh, and that woman having the seizure ... Rocky are you so sure
she will thank the nice policeman when she comes round and finds
it was her Service Dog that got shot ?
Like Jenni's friends, I'm convinced my contacts on various Police
Forces and armed services units etc here would agree with me on
this one. And I do know they know I don't have an "All Coppers Are ..."
attitude. But then, as I already pointed out, it helps that this is
England.
video where a catchpole HAS been used - and then the dog was
STILL shot.
Sorry, just because this is a MINORITY event does not make it OK.
Oh, and that woman having the seizure ... Rocky are you so sure
she will thank the nice policeman when she comes round and finds
it was her Service Dog that got shot ?
Like Jenni's friends, I'm convinced my contacts on various Police
Forces and armed services units etc here would agree with me on
this one. And I do know they know I don't have an "All Coppers Are ..."
attitude. But then, as I already pointed out, it helps that this is
England.
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