IS HE A LONG COAT OR STOCK COAT? I'M CONFUSED! - Page 5

Wasn't suggesting ALL 'plush' coats are really incorrect,
just commenting that its an American 'thing' the Germans
have not wanted any part of, heretofore.  Surely no arguing
with that ?

OP however gave a very precise description of the one dog,
at the start of the thred.  Based on that and what I have
observed over 40+ years of both Standard-meeting Show Dogs
and Working mutts,  I think this coat is going to turn out to be
a bit 'off' when it finally settles.  Or are you trying to say, Kitkat,
that an in-between, overly soft, very wavy coat  is absolutely
no different than a stock coat or the now acceptable longstockhair ?

Some folk will make excuses for anything.  It does not make any
difference to / with the individual dog;  if he is not primarily intended
as a Show Dog - for which ideally they should be as 'correct' to the
Breed Standard as possible, as a benchmark for all others - then
the fact the coat is technically 'incorrect' will have miniscule impact
on his weatherproofing, and none at all on his abilities in Sport or PD
or whatever.  On the other hand, if CMills was asking because s/he
wants to campaign the dog in the Show scene, it is better to know
what the pup might have to cope with ...

Linda- how can you infer I said anything like that? Nothing quite like twisting some words.
If my short term memory serves me, I think I quite simply said"I myself would call him a stock coat.and,I would not be surprised to see his coat turn more toward regular short coat" !nd that 'not all coated dogs get big hairy ears and legs".
I just don't understand why some like to find fault with other peoples dogs.
I am sure cmills is pleased with her dog. She didn't ask for a show critique, she asked about his coat.
I also simply said "I myself like him".
Most lines carry for coats. If they didn't it would be rather easy to totally eliminate them now wouldn't it?
And why it has to be insinuated his ears needed help standing is why there is not hair in them is also ridicules.
THAT is a very nice dog,whatever kind of hair he ha.
I have coated dogs. I've had them with crazy hair coming out of their ears,and toes. I myself don't like that kind of coat,so I didn't breed for it.
I also have, and have had dogss that looked like coated dogs as pups,only to crow into "stock coated" dogs,without hairy ears.

So what-all ELSE did you mean by saying  "I thought the days of
criticizing the long coated dogs had passed."  ?


And it IS  a 'show-line' dog, after all ...

And a "lovely coated showline" at that.....

who was criticizing?  Opinions were asked for and given, if someone doesn't want to hear some opinions then don't ask for them.  Kind of simple.  I also have a coated dog, it's not very long or wavy.  Most call it a "plush", though I don't even think it's that much.  But she's still coated.  Plush is just a way of describing a coated dog that doesn't have a ridiculously long coat :)

Thank you, zDog;   CMills is always pretty receptive to a
range of opinions, indeed has posted again on this thred
to say as much.  So I do not think it is a case for being
nasty;  just not for sucking up with "oh its a lovely, correct,
dog"  just for the sake of never saying anything anyone else
reading the thred can take exception to.  Please note I did
NOT say the dog wasn't lovely, just tried to honestly answer
the specific question on what the coat is likely to do.  [ Actually
I feel he IS quite attractive, as an individual canine;  but I
(personally) would not Show him, or breed from him, if he turns
out to have a faulty coat.  No harm in saying that;  I don't expect
the OP to 'jump'  where I suggest,  unless they believe themselves
it's the right thing.]

Yes, everyone, I know many S/Ls carry longer coats in them;  
but if KitKat really believes Germany is already deliberately
producing more longstockcoats in show line litters, just
because 'coats' can now have their own Classes in
competitions - as s/he appears to be saying ? - when many,
many German and other European kennels have actually tried to
avoid producing them for decades (!), I think KitKat is being a bit
premature.  Even in order to supply 'plush' to American buyers.
We would not want to be re-writing history, would we.

Time will tell how Betovan's coat turns out in adulthood;  if I am
totally wrong about it and the dog simply has a plush/Stock coat,
OR turns out to be a LongCoat (of either type),  then I will be wrong
about the "too soft n wavy" coat type.  Which anyone with enough
experience of the breed in all its variations can confirm does exist;
and which I have seen 'thrown out' of [i.e. put to the back of the line in]
Show Rings.  At least in Europe.

I also do not really appreciate, KitKat, that you seemed to be, in the
same sentence / post, embroiling me in suggesting that there was
anything 'wrong' or incorrect about Betovan's ears.  I do not wish to
be part of your apparent ongoing emnity with Sita'sMom.  If you read
what I wrote about the ear fluff, I was trying to explain what SM may
have meant ... and saying why I felt that was not possible !

If the coat turns out 'right' TO THE STANDARD, & we are all still in contact
when time resolves the question,  then I will have no problem admitting if I
got it wrong;  and CMills will not have been left rosette-less in any Classes.  
Nobody really loses anything from speculations about the (possible) future
truth of any point about any Show dog.  
I, too, will be very interested in the DNA test result.


 

There are regular coats, long coats, and there are dogs "somewhere between" - in this case time will show.
Fact is:
Long coats are allowed within SV
This dog looks good, coat or not
We simply don´t know what will happen during the next months
The poster will have to wait, and if this dog really is a long coat, she has to decide, if she likes this special dog although it´s a coat or not.
I wouldn´t care, for me the dog is important, not the length of its coat, but I´m no breeder.
What I really don´t like is people trying to implement that the ears were taped - without proof that´s nonsense, and rumors like this are able to destroy the future of a dog.
Good luck with your youngster - maybe it´s time to change priorities
 

We will all wait to see what the DNA results come back as. I feel he is going to GENETICALLY  be a "stock coat" carrying the long coat gene, hence his longer coat. It really isn't that wavy in person. As long as he comes back as genetically a stock coat, I would have no problems breeding him to my stock coated bitches, because he would pass on the L/l coat gene anyway, so produce like a standard stock coat.  I did, however, take some offense to people who insinuated he had ear implants, or that his ears had been trimmed up. I would not have even bothered posting this thread if I had trimmed his hair first, what would have been the point? And why make snide comments about his ears being implanted/taped?  I didn't ask for any comments on his ears.  I do want to THANK all of you who have commented that he is a nice dog, I am very pleased with him, and my plans are to show him in UKC and Intnl dog shows, in which I've seen MANY heavily long coated dogs finish their championships. I enjoy it, and so do the dogs.   I will post the DNA results when they come back, for all of us to learn,  and post updated pics as he matures more. His coat hasn't grown any longer or changed in the past 2 months, so I don't really feel like he will ever develope the "hairy' ears, or feathering on backs of legs. He doesn't have any of that now, and is almost 7 months old.

@ susie- I'm not quite sure what your last line meant about maybe I should "change my priorities"??  You don't know me, so don't know what my priorities are.  My priorities are to love this nice young boy, no matter how his coat turns out. I never mentioned anywhere through this thread that if his coat doesn't turn out a certain way, that I won't keep him. Was merely asking what others thought it may turn out to be. DNA will tell us soon>

Sorry, I didn´t want to be unfriendly, but I took a look at your website and only found regular coats you use for breeding and competing, like most of the breeders I know do.
And all of them would sell a coat...
Glad to hear that you will love him, whatever happens.
Only for the report: After more than 30 years ownership of German Shepherds I´m proud owner of a longcoat now...he was questionable, too, but otherwise the best puppy in my area...
All the best to you and your dogs,
Susie