IPO stick attack to disappear? - Page 12

Why is it such a big deal?  Yes IPO is valuable as a test, provided you use it as one.  How a dog comes into a blind, their commitment, what happens after a re-attack and the out etc.  Give me a stick and sleeve and I can tell you a lot about a dog.

And it is also not a very good breed test, because when you simply train for the test day after day, year after year, it ceases to be a test.  Like I said before, I can take about all but the worst and get them to pass, hard stick hits or fluffy ones, it wont' matter.  and like i've said before, an ipo trial has no bearing on what I consider breedworthy.  It is a sport, but it doesn't mean it's useless either.  You know, or should know if a dog is going to have a stick problem before you ever even show it to them.  I don't care how hard you hit them with it.  

I don't think it is anything that needs to be taken out, I also don't think it offers me much trial wise either.  A trial is just show you've done the work.  Any dog that is considered breed worthy should be able to pass the "test", but not every dog that passes is breed worthy.  It's how it is.  Make the stick hits like driving railroads spikes, you'll still have loads of dogs that shit themselves at the sight of a stick passing because people will always find a way to get around things.   You'll still have dogs with less than stellar nerves passing because they were habituated to harder stick hits.   BFD

Will it keep some dogs from passing and some people from participating?  Probably, will it make a bit of difference in the quality of dogs being bred?  not a chance.  Like mentioned before, i could sit in my backyard smoking and drinking up a storm and produce, sell, and register more dogs than someone actually training them could hope to.

My testing comes in training, i prove that i've done the work thru trialing.  So there, IPO is useful and useless at the same time.  There can be a duality in things, and it can be ok, really it can.

I didn't read many of the posts except for the first and last page. Stick hits in s trial are s joke. If the dog isn't used to it by trial time, he is a shitter or you knew he was a shitter and didn't let him see a stick in 2 years. If you want to test your dog, have the helper smack the dog over the head with the stick. If he doesn't stay in the blind or re-engage, buy a better dog. I hear all of you cry that this is a working dog. Well, let me tell you that a felon will do anything and everything to a k9.

If they take the stick hits out, nobody needs to worry about their dog being a shitter, schmitter. Every body gets a pass...like the courage test where everybody gets a pronounced.

Well, if you are a breeder and need to see it to totally base your opinion on a dog, you aren't doing your due diligence. If you breed to a shitter that would have been DQ'd from stick hits, you are a shit breeder. If you own a dog that is like this, you are a joke and it wouldn't matter. You are so blinded or a scumbag that it wouldn't matter. You're gonna make your nut regardless. Shit dogs are bred everyday regardless of stick hits.

Chaz, who's the scumbag here? I didn't breed the dog that came off the sleeve....i bought him as a puppy from a breeder of German SHOW DOGS in Il....what part of that don't you get ? If you had read the posts on here, you would not be mis interpreting the scenario. I do not need to wait for a trial to evaluate my dogs. And I'm not going to repeat myself for your benefit, but suffice it to say, I titled that dog because he loved playing sch, not for any monetary gain ( it is not free using helpers, so it cost me money) . He was a SHOW dog, not one of my WL dogs. I don't care that he came off the sleeve, my world didn't end and you know what, he kept his happy home, I didn't dump him like you suggest. You might do yourself and persons you are looking for amo against a favor and read the thread so you at least know what your commenting on.
If you were using "you" meaning people in general, and not directing your tirade at me, then I will apologize.

BTW, Training my SHOW dog and training my wL dogs gave me a good perspective in the differences in the dogs....you know sort of like being able to speak from actual hands on and not from reading crap spewed by bitter people on a forum who think the only possible reason any one would train and title a dog is to breed it.....some times there are better motives to train and title a particular dog, especially a dog which obviously doesn't have the fortitude that their other dogs possess.
He was great with puppies and I suppose my sch training and titling him didn't hurt me, either. What about you Chaz, what would you do with a dog that you knew would at least need meet the helper before the trial, would you shit can him, or let him live in the house like he did before he came off the sleeve then came back to reengaged the helper at a trial? Oh, that's right, you would have dumped him with out attempting any title, too much of a challenge for the average dog owner.....silly me.

I don't think he was speaking to you.  I think his point was stick hits or not, you know what kind of dog you have, if you're breeding, things should matter, unless you're a dirtbag, then nothing matters because you'll do what you want anyway regardless of the dog in front of you.  Had you bred your dog, you'd probably be in that catagory, but you didn't and you aren't.  You knew what your dog was and trained it accordingly, I can't think of anything better to do than that.  It's when people think they have something they don't, or know they don't have it, and do it anyway they get knocked down a few pegs on the respect scale.

Gottcha, zdog, thanks for the explanation.
Removing stick hits will allow dogs to pass, who should not. Same as passing dogs in BH who have noise issues.

I apologize to Chaz.

I'm new to IPO with my dog but we are working hard. I definitely want to see stick hits remain. We are progressing in protection work. We started with just playing tug. As my girl progresses, the Helper puts more pressure on her. One time, he might stare at her eyes and shout aggressively. I have seen one dog out on his own after that. Then, he touched her legs with whip. Now, he whips her legs and undercarriage while she is biting and has also hit her with the stick. She just fights harder. At the end, he always pets her with stick and pets her head while she is biting and tells her good dog. I think my club perhaps likes to weed dogs out quickly as it is hard to get into this club. If your dog has a weak temperament tant it will waste their time...and.....IPO people never seem to have enough time!!!!  But, I am proud of my girl that she can handle pressure. I don't think it's fear if soft dogs get to pass. I mean what's the point?