Dog Training - Crowd Control - Page 7

In "The Postman " Kostner used the Shakespeare quote in a play he was performing with his mule just before he was captured.

I haven't read the book. Will take the time to do so.

I can smell that cake in the oven...smells done. Lol

 

 

Anyone got a simple chocolate brownie recipe.

Kim I meant no disrespect to you what so ever. What you have written in your first post of this thread had good merit.    As a matter of fact I responded in good faith and respect to your post because you had a valid  point which needed to be cleared up.  I thought that we are talking about dog training of "out" command and since you asked for it I gave you my opinion. After all this is a forum on dog training. But it seems that I have mistaken your post for honest question. Silly me. Since you did not touch on actual topic, it seems and  I did not realize it at the time, but  I guess by my answer was quite exhausting and   I must have done good job since you in your response, did not touch on the topic of training "Out" what so ever, but just felt compelled to  attacked me. How disappointing.... I expected better then that from you. 

BTW, too "cry havoc" means  to cause disorder and confusion it is ancient emperor's permission to the army to pillage.  If anybody cries havoc it is you   by deviating from the topic of this thread.  Why do you have "Ate  by  your side?" Are you joined at the hip? 

 Prager Hans

Do I smell another angel food cake baking in Kim's oven?

Blitzen, the smell  of angle food cake would smell pretty good.

Shakespeare rocks.

LOL, Hans I was in no way attacking you. If I was you would definitely know it, trust me.

Yes this is a dog forum, good observation. Some of the comments made on this topic were very well thought out. But again, my point was "don't jump to conclusions without knowing all the facts".

In fact, I think I have heard you say that same thing once or twice.

One of the problems I find with videos being posted is that there is no detailed explanation of what the video is about. The age of the dog, it's experience, past or present problems that are being worked on etc. Because chances are if more information was available to the viewer they might think differently about what they are viewing.

Again, you yourself had to point out things concerning your dog in the video (with the Great Santini  Grand Master Trainer) that could have led people to think differently about what they saw if you had explained it in the opening of the video.

You quoted - Duke:VK, do you think this way of rewarding on a tug can result in a situation where he comes agains hooligans and they throw some small item at the handlers and the dog will go for the prey/item instead of the hooligans?

Hans: Absolutely!!!!!!

I could not disagree with you more! I say that because we train our dogs to avoid that very scenario because.......... you just never know. I'm sure you train your dogs to do the same?

Do you really think the dogs in that video took this training seriously? Those so called Hooligans were nothing more than kids being loud and clapping. Oh my god......kill them all.

You should know......that the job of the decoy (helper for bzcz who thinks were talking about sport dogs) in this particular situation is to convince the dogs that they are a serious threat and push the dog....... or build its confidence in a crowded and violent situation, just my opinion.

You should never use inexperienced decoys for this type of training, all it does in my opinion is confuse the dog.

Duke posted a video of a very nice dog working, however it was a poor example; to compare a dog working a single Experienced decoy   -  to a bunch of so called Hooligans in a riot. I would like to see that same dogs reaction to a large group of experienced decoys. No offense intended Duke, just making an observation, your dog reminds me of one of our previous dogs Roland Eqidius.

Finally Hans, I don't understand urban slang very well, "Why do you have "Ate by your side?" Are you joined at the hip?"

I don't know what that means?  If you have something to say then please say it in plain English

I am not attacking anyone, as I said.....if I was.....you would know it.

Peace/Live Long and Prosper and enjoy Baking cakes

Kim

Cry havoc thing was Keven Costner's character in "The Postman", I'm certain of it. There was no Chineese  emperor in that movie. It was Shakespeare's play they were quoting, " cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war". Two characters in the movie used the phrase. 

Did Shakespeare speak mandarin ?

I have seen some very brutal methods used to teach a dogs to out...always created issues which need to be fixed, but the issues never were eliminated. Always caused anxiety when the handler approached, anticipation of handler return manifested by looking back and some of the dogs at that particular club would just release early or not re-engage.

The biggest problem is using the same method for every dog regardless of the temperament of the dog, like an assembly line. Not all dogs need a prong with the helper pulling under the sleeve to cram the dog into the sleeve and crank the head back while the prong is being pulled so hard behind the dogs head that injury is eminent. But that is a common method used by some club helpers. The dogs out, but not without a price.

 

Ok just because you say you did not attck me I will believe it. But you could fool many.  As far as duke's quote goes:

VK, do you think this way of rewarding on a tug can result in a situation where he comes agains hooligans and they throw some small item at the handlers and the dog will go for the prey/item instead of the hooligans?

He askes if it "can result in situation".... I say: Yes it can.  Can you train it out yes you can. But why to set yourself up for failure and then try to fix it later. I simply do not understand the reason for automatic recall and automatic reward on a toy. Why not just instead  rewarding a dog on the toy, reward  the dog with re-bite on a sleeve. That is a sound approach used for ever.

You keep saying that there may be a reason for doing it the same way as the handler have done it in the video. May be it is. I can not picture it though.  Why don't you play a devils advocate and describe such scenario here. ( honest request.) 

Ate quote.

LOL As far as Ate quote goes it is not an urban slang. It is a quote from very Shakespeare passage act 3 Julius Caesar quote made by Marcus Antonius  which you quoted above. Thus I thought you were familiar with it. 

Marcus Antonius:
And Caesar's spirit, raging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war,
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.

Julius Caesar Act 3, scene 1, 270–275

Ate is, I believe , Greek goddess of, besides many other things,   strife.  I said that you are attached to Ate at the hip   in good humor. 

She was the Goddess of Evil and Misfortune and also the personification of Infatuation - "the rash foolishness of blind impulse, usually caused by guilt and leading to retribution............. She was a temptress, and lead humans toward evil. She actually trapped Zeus once, but he would have none of that, and threw her (literally) off Olympus. 

Good name for female dog though. :)

I like it . It has a good ring to it:" Ate drz!!"   "Ate pust!" I mean Ate Out but no toy to redirect to.  Again,.... Just kidding. 

:)

​ Prager Hans

Kim, im kind of confused,first I agree 500 % with hans, that this type of training will definately hold the risk that these dogs will run after thrown stuff, after all the training and rewarding is prey based

 

now for my confusion, read well, im not offended at all, you come up with a whole bunch of excuses for the dogs in the first video, really, do you believe they would respond differend on trained decoys, do you really believe prey based training will result in serious stable streetdogs, and do you think any dog that will bite a sleeve, can be trained into a patrol or crowd control dog

and you are right about my dog, he is a nice dog , do you really believe he will show behaviour like the dog in the first video when confronted by multiple helpers, there is big difference between trained behaviour and natural behaviour

here is his first time on a suit, on passive helper, no previous biting on sleeve that day, no whipping no screaming, indoor, remember he is only 10 months here,

 

Pirates Lair,

Got news for ya.  If you're using a tug for the out, it must be sport work (poor sport work at that) cuz it's sure not streetwork. Hence their helpers