royalties for titles - Page 3

Bob; the best IPO dogs show speed and willingness in the obedience, but you know this. The best/hardest helper work was on display at this year's WDC in Ohio. Marcus Hampton on the front of protection drives a dog as strong as anyone and uses the padded stick, like a ''hammer''. Place your dog on an airplane and fly thru several time zones to one of the national or internation events and see how easy it is for a dog to function, but you know this also. you have been around. Watch these events, don't fool yourself into believing every dog there is the greatest and enjoy.  where  else do you go to see the breed's future? 

WOW.  We are really wondering what attributes IPO tests for.

Character isn't displayed by the dog in each of the three phases.  Really?  Physical agility?  Jumps? turnss, wall?

Mental toughness and Heart?  Protection?  You tell me you can't see the difference between power and prey in an obedience dog?  Or true aggression in Protection and not a prey dog?

Susie has it right.  Police dogs come from IPO dogs, as do bomb dogs and search and rescue and and and.  IPO keeps the skills and the genetics alive and viable for the next generation.  Get rid of IPO and watch the breed head down the tubes.  How many dobes are doing police work anymore?  There used to be some.

2 simple jumps, do not show agality and physical abality, IPO protection is all prey based so no real stressors there. IPO is a wonderful sport title and it takes many long hours and hard word to reach a top score.Yes i know this and i,ve been around BUT Chasing in a escape is Prey, a longh bite with someone coming down field is prey, The only thing that might make the dog think is the attack on the handler and look how it,s done today and it,s only done in a breed survey unless your doing AWD titles. If i,m going to pay royalties i want a dog well tested and IPO doenst do that.  

Sure it does.  A guy coming at a dog isn't prey.  In the GREAT OLD TIMES WHEN IT WAS A REAL TEST, the helper ran away from the dog on the long bite and turned for the catch.  That was prey.  A guy coming down the field yelling at and swinging a stick at a dog isn't prey.  I'm pretty sure a chicken never tried that with a wolf.

And of course you didn't mention the reattacks and the stick hits.  Those are stressors as is the long barking in the blind.  Plenty of dogs show insecurity in the blind on the long guarding.

oh and AKC agility as well as FCI is a bunch of jumps with a table and some tubes with a dog walk and an ***a-frame*** that all are much lower than IPO.

And the stand in obedience is nothing but a nerve test bcause it is unnatural to a dog, which is also why most blow the sit.  Plenty to see if you watch.  Too many want the cliff notes version without having to pay attention.

VK, our dogs HAVE TO BE titled, health tested, shown, breed surveyed, although the German Shepherd is the CHEAPEST breed in my country...nobody asking for royalties
Nobody is forced to go the German way, but maybe there is a BETTER way - right now there are people buying titled dogs for breeding, and there are people breeding dogs without proof.
Talking about buying - a good dog is expensive, there is no bargain ( that said most of the people buying a German Shepherd don´t buy a good one, simple reality ).
Talking about breeding dogs out of titled parents without proof - a puppy out of titled parents doesn´t automatically guarantee a well tempered working dog - without testing no proof.Titles do show a tendency, everything else MUST BE TESTED.
Breeding untested dogs for one or two generations almost always will end in pets, not in working dogs any more.

I hate the tell tales about the "great old times"...

Sorry bzcz, If you consider any of the afore mentioned real stressors then we have a very different description of Heart,Courage and Physical agility. 

Suzie, you are correct about those dogs in the 70's and 80's. I had what I considered to be the toughest Malinois ever...that dog would take on anyone, anytime or die trying and you are very correct, that aggression was not based on solid nerve, it never is, but, I NEVER had to worry about him not biting someone when I needed him to either.

Indeed, today we have changed a lot as a society, we have become softer and as a result, the dogs have to. As far as the dogs you switched from sport to police, I will tell you that they were the dogs that would not do good sport, too much dog, not good for points, sell him to the police. There is a huge difference between a sport dog and a police dog, or there should be. Of course some police dogs come out of sport dogs...again, not every dog produced out of sport dogs will make a good sport dog, some actually have the balls to work the street. 

Now, the malinois being prey monsters, sure, a lot of them are, but that desire to bite is so huge, sleeve, suit, shorts and shirt, they will bite you. As far as the favorite toy, Suzie, that applies to any dog. That Malinois I mentioned above would bite the sleeve every single time, as long as you had one on, but, he also had many, many, too many actually, bites on the street that he did not care about sleeve not being there or biting your arm or whatever. Actually, if you were facing him and getting bitten, chances are you were getting neutered, but, thats another story...that dog died in 87, once in a while I think of him and parts of me miss him.

Bob, you are for sure able to "stress" a dog more than on a trial, there is always a "more", but right now the overwhelming majority of German Shepherd dogs in your country isn´t even willing to "stress" their breeding dogs at all...
A IPO trial is a way, it´s not the end of all, but by walking this way the handler is able to learn a lot about the dog in question.
Right now people aren´t even able to understand the difference between a single trial in the dogs comfort zone and a dog that trialed regionally...
Long way to go

Hired, I agree, but breeding "for police" is not the real goal for "my" breed. The original goal was to breed stable dogs able to protect their owners. And not "some police dogs come out of sport dogs" but at least in my country almost all of them. We might debate about their quality, but facts remain facts.

Today a lot of people are breeding for points only / not my kind of dog - and a lot of people are breeding for show only / not my kind of dog, too.
Worst case are the so called "real" dog breeders, breeding a sharp unstable male to a sharp unstable female...
I still believe that in a litter out of well tempered working dogs everybody is able to find the dog that suits him, but that´s me, and I´m not the majority...