NASS Results??? - Page 12

I'm starting to better  understand why some German owners won't show at AKC shows. Results like Marco's happen at those shows almost every time a dog is exhibited. One judge loves the dog, the next judge hates it and both can be GSD breeders. Rather than decide the difference in placements is the always the result of corruption or some covert conspiracy plot, think again because it could just as well indicate 2 honest and NON INFLUENCED evaluations of the same dog by 2 different sets of eyes.  Ask any AKC person how many times their dog has won the breed or even the group or BIS one day and not even placed in the class the next. That hardly reeks of corruption -  a pretty dramatic accusation for something as unimportant as a dog show placement. Not like it's a matter of national security . Plus, if the competition was not the same in both classes at both shows, why should this even be an issue?

An AKC judge was approached by a disgruntled exhibitor who complained to him that he dumped her dog, the same dog that had won the breed the previous day with the same competition. He told her he can't be reponsible for other judge's mistakes.

Blitzen,

While that is true for AKC it is not the norm for SV style shows.  There is no official show record kept but the SV judges pride themselves on consistency of judging across the board.  Think of the ratings as categories instead of placings.  A dog can be SG2 or SG 100 but he is always an SG dog.  Likewise a V dog should always be a V dog.  Bad day is V80, good day is V10 for example.  The normal progression for a VA dog is to climb up through the V ranks and once there are enough offspring of the dog that are of high enough quality then the dog earns his VA.

A german show is as much about the offspring of the dog as it is the dog himself for the VA dogs.  Typically no dog goes VA that has not produced an heir apparent.  Cash V. Wild Steigerland went VA multiple times based on the strength of his female offspring but he kept dropping back in the VA ratings because he never produced a son of high enough quality. 

A jump from V12 to VA4 is a huge jump in this system, however it may have nothing to do with crooked and can be based on the GSDCA judge having seen some offspring from this dog that made him feel the dog was worthy of a VA.  Can also happen if the judge has seen/placed siblings of this dog in other shows or even one of his parents.  The SV system is much more interconnected than AKC. The dogs who compete for VA both here and in Germany are actually carefully campaigned throughout the show season to get to that VA rating at the Sieger Show.  This often leads to comments about the fix is in before the show.  Again there is no fix, it's a campaign that those who follow can see as the results come in. 

I should also mention that at the SG and lower V levels is where the judges individuality will more ofter show through.  i.e. one judge will put a sable working dog a low V and another judge refuses and even though he places the dog correctly in the class he makes the dog SG1 and all the showline dogs behind the working dog get an SG rating instead of their normal V.  This has actually happened. This is where the judges make their statements in the SV system. 

Mklevin,

It would help if you had some history before you jump full in a thread and participate through all of their inevitable tangents.

Would also have saved you a long winded "explanation" regarding SV shows to Blitzen in that she is quite well versed on the subject her preference for AKC aside.

I personally like to know who's who and what's what before full engagement in any endeavor.

Just my opinion....

Kevin

Kevin,

This statement by Blitzen tells me that she doesn't get it because she is using an AKC show and extrapolating it to an SV system.

Rather than decide the difference in placements is the always the result of corruption or some covert conspiracy plot, think again because it could just as well indicate 2 honest and NON INFLUENCED evaluations of the same dog by 2 different sets of eyes.  Ask any AKC person how many times their dog has won the breed or even the group or BIS one day and not even placed in the class the next.

You also seem to forget that there are who knows how many lurkers out there who don't any of this.  But that's ok, we'll just expect everyone to know everything without ever taking the time for "long winded explanations".

Good to know that you have an opinion.

So which judge is corrupt?  The one that awarded the Va rating or the one that awarded the V12?  Was the corruption an upgrade in the placement or a downgrade?

Thanks for the ongoing education, ML. I didn't realize showing in conformation was of any interest to you. I'll leave it to you to educate the lukers on the nuances of showing dogs the German way and the AKC way. Then they won't be given any incorrect information.

Yes clearly everyone gets it since we have to beat that corruption horse to death several times over.

Ah, Mklevin,

So your "higher purpose" is to ensure the masses are properly versed.

Beyond that sarcasm, I share your thoughts toward knee jerk, arm chair quarterbacking labeling judges and/or helpers biased.

I also share Dog1's point that perceptions of favoritism and ways to mitigate it should be very, very high on the consciousness of leadership within dog or any competitive venue; it would appear that to some, the WDA has been remiss in that effort.

As has my own club at various times....  But I KNOW that our current leadership is extremely in tune to that and I appreciate their efforts.

Best,

Kevin

Kevin,

Not really, I was just curious if you were going to speak for them as well.

If you want me to believe that someone gets something, you probably shouldn't post right after their post clearly demonstrates that they don't get it.