Stud dog question? Does he exist? - Page 3

Nice to know that, I did not mean any harm though. I agree ti importance of temperament/work ability. GSD is a trotter, its structure complements that. GSD was not meant to be a sport dog though it should be able to do sport and agility. We differ on what proper structure/conformation is. I don\t remember the dog Jyl posted.

Totally agree with Kevin. That's an interesting point.  I say "structure" all the time. "Conformation" seems to change all the time with the trends and I am not going to concentrate on breeding toward judging fads; rather, I will concentrate on proper and sound STRUCTURE so the dog may work long hours and his body not break down...and he can look good doing it. 

Jen, I am not talking show line structure like that of a VA. I am talking about GSD structure stated in the standard, not the overangulated rear nor loose hocks. I don't think and write show or work, I think GSD.

 

In regards to endurance do you think if you put in ring the best "athletic" work line that lacks proper angulation it can compete with a VA dog? that is not only imaginary but also against physics.

Ibrahim, poorly bred and poorly constructed is just that, whether their owners justify it by saying they "could" trot all day (doubtful, lol, as some of them seem to be tripping over their own flippers feet) or that they're "athletic"dogs and looks don't matter. The fact of the matter is that scrawny, spindley, snipey-nosed, totally straight rear-legged, washed out, neurotic coyotes are no more correct GSDs than hock-walking nerve bags whose coat may be a lovely shade of red and black (some even painted! ). 

I actually find it offensive to have my WL dogs compared to those dogs you speak of, frankly. Incorrect is incorrect, and I don't care who's doing it or how they're justifying it. If it's that far out of the standard that it either cannot work or cannot conform reasonably to the drawn standard, it's not correct. Period. I think WL breeders who don't worry about structure are doing a huge disservice to the breed- just as much as SL breeders who are breeding abominations in temperament. 

I will never "get" this angulation thing, though, in terms of endurance. While I like moderate angulation aesthetically, I'm having a heck of a time wrapping my head around how it really adds sooo much endurance and stamina. What animal, in nature, has angulation like a VA dog? Do all natural animals have endurance shortcomings? Wolves and coyotes travel miles between meals. Is their structure incorrect?  I do not think GSDs should look like either wolves or coyotes; I am merely stating the credo so often touted amongst those who want to justify ridiculous angulation makes no sense to me. That's all. 

That is a great post, I totally agree Jen

Far as Im concerned SLs are already an offbreed for IPO/work.  Seeing one that can work at a half decent level is as rare as running into a Dobe or American Bull dog that has the nerves to do average bitework.

Before anyone feels the need to post vids or pictures of their SL doing half hearted grips on an IPO sleeve dont bother ;), your denial about what your dog is has nothing to do with reality. 

Sigh......this just had to lead to a my-dog-is-better-than-your-dog chest thumping ego trip once again, didn't it? 

Haz, that is a shame really. I will add, if an outsider to the GSD breed but in dogs and has fair knowledge and good command of English, reads the GSD standard and you present infront of him/her 50 work line + 50 showlines selected randomly to test them to the written breed standard, I bet not more than 5% would qualify the breed standard in temperament combined with correct structure/conformation. And note I don't say dogs that can get perfect scores in IPO and highest level in show ring. Isn't that a problem?

 

P.S: I just noticed you added to your above post and it has a sense of "hate" for the show, I think that is wrong, show has its flaws, work does have its flaws too.

Ibrahim, as for a trotting breed, do you think that implies the dog should not be capable of running? Have you ever seen a dog jump a ditch at a trot? Smh.

Joanro, I didn't say that. That question about trot and ditch, what does it prove?!!!

And what is smh?