Stud dog question? Does he exist? - Page 8

Ibrahim, the norm work breeder forgets the outside? What do we have, then, spirits running around working goats and apprehending criminals? That is a rediculous comment by a person who is educated. Form does follow function.

Ibrahim, clearly there is a disconnect between what you think it beautiful and what others think is beautiful. Obviously I am biased, but I think I have some GORGEOUS working line dogs and they are ATHLETIC- tough, have good stamina, speed (especially for size) and overall vigor and health. **I'm talking about my own only because I don't want to bring anyone else's dogs up and have someone say something nasty about them and have the owner upset for something I started.***  There are plenty of solid working line dogs with gorgeous "outsides."

I also believe there are showlines with good temperament. They may not be as "tough" in some ways but there are exceptions to that. I bred to one I found very nice and by what he's produced, he is not a fluke. He has produced multiple patrol dogs and those who have trained them and/or worked them are impressed. Like many have mentioned before, there are many many good dogs out there- it's just that their breeders don't spend much time on the internet like us, lol. Nasty habit we've developed.  

Jenni, one question please, where did you or anyone else read in my posts anything different or contrary to what you just said?

Did I say all Wl breeders do not give enough attention to dog's outside?

Did I say say all show dogs do not have good temperament?

I even openly praised your dogs here on PDB because I honestly think they have good conformation/structure, there isn't a more dear breeder to me than a work breeder who pays attention to conformation and a show breeder who pays attention to work ability. So what is it exactly you don't agree to what I've been saying on this thread?

 

Ibrahim

You said the "norm work breeder forgets the outside." 

I'm saying I don't even think it's fair to say "the norm." I think there are a lot, particularly in the USA who forgo the entire conformation thing- but  when I consider GSDs I think of the world population and in that sense,I  do not think there is a big problem in finding working line pedigrees full of properly (and beautifully!) conformed GSDs. You just need to know where to look. 

 

 

Are those breeders the majority or the minority? Are they the norm? out of a 1000 work line GSDs chosen from 100 breeders randomly, how many do you think would fit the standard in regards to structure?

 

That is my point Jenni, I am neither against the work nor show type, my point is most work breeders do not pay enough attention to conformation, and most of show breeders do not pay enough attention to work ability. Work dogs have faults, show dogs have faults too , no one is better on the scale of standard (Physical constitution + Traits & Characteristics), one lacks in proper structure, the other lacks in work ability, both have some conformation faults, both have some characteristics faults. A better GSD lies there in both types, but partially and not totally in a single one. I agree to Smiley opening post in her wish to combine the best of each type in one dog, such a dog existed before, can be re-produced.

 

Ibrahim

 

 

Perhaps I'm overly optimistic, but I think there are probably close to half (in the whole world, not the USA) working line breeders who pay attention to structure. I scroll through litter plans and latest breedings all the time and see dogs that maybe aren't my personal cup of tea (I admit to being a superficial gal!) in the looks department, but they are rated SG or V and fit the standard nonetheless. While I might find them appealing, their breeders have made an effort to breed to the standard and have had them shown and judged as such. 

I agree such a dog exists- I honestly don't understand the big deal here. Why reinvent the wheel if you don't have to? 

Sure, the balanced dogs exist today. Frankly, I have always had dogs with great temperament and strong structure. Many others also, the reality is that you very very seldom see the perfect anatomical dog doing real work. Now that suggests to me that either real work is not a barometer of real work, or that there can be many variations of structure and still have superb working dog. GS breeding is more an art of knowledge and experience, than science of angles and drives. Angles and drives were not important words in the breed when the breed had show structure and working temperament in same dogs. As these elements became elevated, the separation of type of dogs that do both well decreased.....hmmmmm.

Anyway, just some thoughts to give some of newbies something to think on and look into. I realistically, know that show, sport, and what people like primary drives the breed today....I'm not trying to swim upstream anymore...lol

Interesting, I am watching a report on TV about security measures taken in Egypt against terrorist  attacks that escalated recently, all 3 dogs doing explosive scent work are show line, typical today's show line structure

Breeds are man designed, if anyone thinks nature should do the proper practical structure maybe he/she should not buy/breed purebred dogs.

The problem with this statement is us humans have decided that certain conformation traits that don't exist in nature are 'better' than what nature designed. And quite often we are WRONG!!

Here's a good example from the horse world. I am sure anyone familiar with equine anatomy will be wanting some brain bleach after seeing this photo!!

The almost total lack of any bend in this horse's hock is refered to as 'post leg'.

This was from an ad, and the owner claimed (as I so often see with the ads on this board!) that the horse had 'super correct anatomy'!   Oh yeah, and she's being sold pregnant, and is a 'super producer', so this is not her first foal! She's also a reserve champion halter horse. 

Here, for comparison, is one of the greatest rachehorses of all time, Man O'War