Buying dogs from Europe - Page 4

Wrong again!
Shari (the older one) has HD/ED and DNA in Germany!
Other are coming too. They are too young for me to put them to breed yet.

"Eastern Europe" covers a lot of ground and has a lot of diversity. I would not bother to pick up my dogs from several of the countries that are in this large and diverse grouping.

However, I exclusively pick up my GSDs from a couple of the countries in this grouping (or dogs that originated from those countries and have stayed true to type), disregarding price. I know that several police departments also exclusively get their dogs from these couple of countries, for the traits they come with. Due to the magic of selective breeding over several decades, the Eastern European countries that I get my dogs from, have traits in their "root-blood" GSDs, that I consider very, very valuable, and those traits have become as rare as hen's teeth in current-day Germany. So when it comes to working dogs, I have zero interest in the WG dogs of today.

If I had any interest whatsoever in showlines (I don't), I might have looked at the German dogs.

When it comes to working Labs, I find the American field lines to be numero-uno. I don't find any better lines, anywhere else in the world.



 

Once again, this was no complaint against any countries, but against unhonest breeders, sellers, brokers.
Not more, not less.

I tried to explain, that

not every dog, announced as PPD, really is a PPD
not every male advertised as stud dog is able to breed
not every female sold as a brood bitch is able to get puppies without problems
not every 12 months old dog coming from Europe ( including Germany ) is free of HD / ED
not every puppy out of "famous" parents will be outstanding, too, later on
not every titled dog is a good working dog
not every mentioned sire / dam needs to be the truth ( DNA )
not every puppy will inherite the working skills of its ancestors
a untitled dog over here is a "green" dog
a titled dog will be breed surveyed, IF POSSIBLE
a "ready for" dog isn´t titled out of certain reasons
...
and on and on and on....

We could argue about countries for months, but it´s about the people, not about their origin.

Use the tools you have ( internet, friends, clubs ) and double check, and when you are done with cyber checking take a deep step into the "real world" = the clubs in your own country, and take a look at "real" dogs.

Our European dogs are not better, but our overall club structure is. The more trained and titled dogs, the more experienced handlers, trainers, and helpers, the better the chance to "create" a good dog.

Just do your homework, ask for proof, don´t believe,
In case you want to participate in any WUSV or AKC events, make sure it´s possible ( registrations, rules ).

"We" don´t produce winners only, we are glad in case we produce "normal" dogs, the "champions" are the tip of the iceberg.

A lot of good genetics and dogs on your side of the pound, but wasted, because people are not able to understand, that it´s not about genetics only, but about selecting, raising, and training, too.

 

Oh, forgot to say "sorry", Old Shatt... :)

 

Susie, I finally got it!
On your side of the pound are the best breeders, sellers, brokers! And, of course, the best GSD's on the planet!
Gee, I have a brilliant idea: Germans should start breed American Staffordshire Terriers!
OK, let it go...

I bought a long coat female from old shatterhand. I have 8 beautiful long coat to long coat pups. Did the best I could in the breeding taking into consideration time for travel, money and selection of long coats within proximity. Have an old time breeder coming tomorrow to pick out a pup. Looking for her(requested by me) honest showing opinion. We'll see how my pups turn out under a more scrutinized eye cause I think they are gorgeous. So far, at 10 weeks, all healthy, active and good tempernment. I suspect that I would be willing to buy from him again. Keeping 2 females and (big mistake) one male I am in love with. Let you and old Shatterhand know the results of all this as they get older. Think all you guys and your opinions are great. My female looks and acts just like her dad-both are independent, stubborn and opinionated. Is it the German VA or the Polish Breeder. LOL J.

Susie, I was recently in one of the E.European nations that are big into dogs, and my GSDs are from those bloodlines exclusively. The clubs, the commitment from the breeders, the love for their GSDs, their pride in their GSDs etc., was just extraordinary and something I had witnessed only in Germany before that. The high quality breeders from that country are standouts in what they produce when it comes to the quality of their dogs, and their commitment to titling and breed-surveying etc.

When I see the rare ZVV3 dog (3-4 dogs get this title in an entire year), I know that it is no ordinary title or ordinary dog. A SchH3 or IPO3 I would consider as a notch or two below, and very much commoditized. Typically, in that country, they get the IPO3 etc out of the way, before they would even venture into the higher level ZVVs. And for breeding, the dogs need to be mandatorily titled and breed-surveyed.

I would have no concerns whatsoever about such an "Eastern European" country.and despite other choices being available, I exclusively pickup my GSDs from there (or from those bloodlines), for the high quality of the dogs and their valuable traits.

 aaykay, Thanks man! Finally, somebody who is looking further, ''on the other side of the pound''!

And stoelzle, make it more clear: you bought a female from Old Shatt but, basically, the female is from Poland, right!? At least, this is what I understood from your post, ''Polish breeder''...

I'd love to hear what it is about the ZVV3 that makes it a notch or two below an IPO3. Just watched a few videos and there must be different levels just like there are in Schutzhund and I was watching what we would consider “club” level. Extra exercises? Whoopdy-do… Just something else to train, not a natural behavior so doesn’t say anything about the dog. Lack of focus is also huge as the dogs I watched were working in a much lower level of drive and didn’t look impressive at all. The helpers weren’t doing anything special or extra, in fact the ones I watched did exactly as one would do in a club level IPO trial. Dog didn’t guard for anywhere near a minute at any time. It’s more than likely a numbers game…even for Czech and Slovakian trainers, the IPO title will sell more so there is no reason to do the ZVV. It reminds me a lot of the AWD titles we have on offer in the United States. Claim to be harder due to the lack of people doing it and the natural myth that comes with that.

I believe (s)he was saying that it is a notch or two above IPO3.