Can someone explain me what this master trainer and master decoy are doing ?? - Page 4

Bubba that's super muzzle work on that video . And your post below is very good . Thanks for your thoughts

@noitsyou. Thank you for taking time to write such a long post without saying much of anything of substance or logic.
. I will say this. The "Santa Clause" is me.
If you think this is marketing, then you do not know much about marketing. BTW I have not initiated this thread so I do not know who is marketing what. But it is not me marketting me. As far as this training being ineffective i would like to cordially invite you and show you how effective it is. Also hundreds of dogs serving in LE and military will  disagree with you. Your questioning of need for people using dogs for pp is old worn out notiona and it is uncalled for . If you do not want pp dog then do not get one. Other do not feel the same way.
Your ridiculous accusation of abuse only indicate that you do not know what is going on the video. I have explained  what is going on the video  before . You saying that defense part of training is a myth just puts finger on your ignorance. Thus it is good that you do not post much - as you say. 

If anyone cares to know what I see in that video it's a dog that's stressed and frustrated and fighting the muzzle. I know, we all see that. I also see a dog that wants to play, not kill, bite or fight. I see a "trainer" who should have known better, if he is what he claims, and not even attempted this as the dog was stressed before she even started. You don't start from a stressed out state but add stress to a dog that is in a confident state of mind. This is just plain ignorant and borderline sadistic. Muzzle training, IMO, is not about creating a fighter but enhancing the fight in a dog who is already a fighter. This dog looks like she wants to play, at best, and is utterly confused at worst. Why ask a dog to do something it hasn't been trained to do? And that decoy doesn't help any. Was he just some random guy who was picked off the street? He covered his face I believe at some points, why? That dog wasn't going to do anything. This is an example of what happens when you don't establish a proper foundation in a dog.

And the excuse of this being an attempt to stress the dog to see how she behaves is beyond ignorant. If anyone trained my dogs like that I would be in jail. No one would though because I wouldn't make the mistake of hiring someone like this. Unfortunately there are newbies who do. Before anyone cries that I'm attacking this trainer for personal reasons as has already happened to other posters, I will say that I do not know him and never heard of him until recently. I am posting this for the benefit of the new people who might get taken in by a slick marketing shtick. Training needs to be specific because the result you want has to be the only result you get. If you do muzzle training to bring out the fight in a dog or want it to use its body against the decoy then that needs to be the result you get. If you don't then you failed before you even started. Introducing a new stress to a dog and crossing your fingers is not training. It's messing around. How is this poor dog supposed to overcome this stress if it doesn't know what its supposed to do in the first place? Again, it gets back to improper, if any, foundation.

Yeah, yeah, you can train in defense but you can't force it and it should be only when a dog has a solid foundation. Defense isn't going anywhere. If it's in the genes it will come out when needed. Unless you want a dog that hates/fears people and can only function as a fenced off guard dog. Then focus on creating your "killers." More likely than not these killers will run off before a dog that has a proper foundation that focuses on prey and, God forbid, "sport" techniques will give up the fight. IMO training a dog to operate one step from flight is training a dog to have that option. But if I'm wrong I'm sure there will be verifiable results to prove that.

Show me what? These hundreds of MWDs and K9s you reference? How many of them have you personally trained from start to finish?

I know exactly what ISN'T going on in that video: proper training.

Are you saying a properly bred GSD won't protect unless it has gone through your system?

This is unbelievable, just when you think you have seen it all. Talk about not having a clue on how to work dogs in the muzzle, let alone training them.

Hans you are exposed...!! You have never trained a dog were it can be proven...

@roblew1 If he could have shown verifiable proof we never would have been asking for it. He would have already put it out there. Has one police officer ever posted anywhere that Prager, or Hans, or whatever his real name is, trained his K9? I'm talking more than holding the leash for a photo. Prager/Hans could be the real deal. I won't call him a fraud or liar but he could clear up these questions by providing proof to back up his claims. I would be the first to apologize.

 I would bet a $100 one of these "new" posters did not cloak before signing up another account here. Oopsey.

Noitsyou 

roblew1 

RI K9

Three is an interesting number, too funny.... 

 

Just to let you know they are not the same person nor do they have another name here that I can find.  Western Rider

 

 

Gina I taught something strange to hahaha

Yogi,

I will be taken side bets on No & RI... but roblew1 nope. You don't invite pete when your rollin undercover, good god. Whoever was in charge of this operation, what were you thinking.

I love this forum, don't hate me.... It like band camp, only more fun.