Blind search exercise comment - reposted - Page 5

amazing
I wish all dreamers happy dreams and happy hollidays

Vk and susie
I used the police story not as a comparison but to make the point. IPO and Sch has it's limitations in accessing TOTAL true character of a dog.The second aspect is that a bark and hold does not always give on the surface a true picture at times of the dog. Koach advances this thought by stating [ as fact ] that at times the B&H is born in insecurity . But one needs experience at times to see this. That is what the story of the young officer was about. Also a behaviorist of 30 years initially missed the flaw at first.

Of course ,in a competition you look at all the phases of the dog's performance. But the so called protection phase ,of which it is not, is a section in and of itself because it supposed to have elements that the other phases don't have. In truth , AKC has obedience and tracking , so you want to equate the noble gs to that level alone , of only what a Shit-Shu can do ? There is supposed to be a protection phase for a reason . Maybe for one , and not limitted to one reason , to test the courage and nerve of the dog ? Isn't that one of the most important baraoneters and aspects of temperament? Really , speed : who cares.. some dogs physically are faster , some more agile does that make one dog better than the other ? How stupid.

BTW , regarding Mondio , French or Belgium Ring , KNVP : try putting a temperamnt deficient GS through one of those endeavors. I will tell you in truth , unlike IPO , you would hardly , if ever perhaps , see a temperament flawed GS , or any other breed dog for that matter ,make the grade in any of those sports. I kept that comparison of IPO to other sports - not LE . Now I don't mean to be disrespectful , for my whole foundation was Schutzhund for years and years . I was taught Sch/IPO inside out , upside down , and was taught how to teach those to do Sch . My mentors and friends are the elite of Sch . However the other sports are more true to the dog and better representations of a canine , non disputable. I don't think one should compare them , as I write that is comparing aplles to oranges. But don't try to make as if IPO is a barmoneter to the goodness of a canine, for it falls short. I fantastic sport , yes and I like it for that. ADS a measure of a dog - it's laughable tothevery very very seriuos and discrminating person in evaluating canines.
No intention to offend , but unless you have done those endeavors and understand the teahing and the philosophy .. not just having seen them , but having done them .. then you are not in a position to even considering debating that statement.

You are the only one making the claim IPO is somehow a test for police dog service, nobody else is.

And yes temperament flawed dogs do title in every sport including ring, knpv....

And serious dog people don't laugh at IPO, in fact IPO attracts the top handlers, trainers and dogs in the world. Its the only international sport attracting the best people and dogs. Even bart bellon has said so for nvbk when at the top of his game he said he is the best in his own back yard and if you want to compete against the best in the world you do ipo.

 

Are you that uneducated to think every knpv, French ring dog etc certifies as a police dog??
 

I've seen plenty of "temperament deficient" dogs with mondio and other ring titles. Dog training is dog training and at a club level for any sport a variety of dogs can pass. Enough work and persistence and plenty of trainers can get beginning level titles at their local trial under their training helper. There was no need for your comment and unfortunately it shows how much you disrespect IPO. I completely understand your point about “proving the dog” when it comes to IPO, but you’ve clearly got ulterior motives after that comment. If you’re talking higher level titling…then the same goes for IPO, a temperament deficient GSD won’t be on the podium at higher level trials. Might make it to a national somehow due to friendly scoring at a club trial and then an entry at the regionals in the United States, but it wouldn’t make it far in countries more like Germany where competition is very high.

The point about IPO not being the ultimate test is valid, as is the point about people who CAN’T compete at the highest levels of IPO running their mouths about how much better their dogs are and listing off the reasons why they just can’t get those high scores. Sure…usually nothing to do with the dog, but lack of training ability and lack of dog being able to get those points doesn’t make it a better dog. 80s in obedience doesn’t mean high aggression. 70s in tracking doesn’t mean the dog is a man eater. All it means is that the trainer can’t train the way the dog needs to be trained and everything that comes out of their mouth about their great dog is nothing but an excuse.

I even see typically Czech PPD, old school dog crowd ragging out on how crap actual police dogs are in real service and how bad police dog handler's and their dogs are at police dog trials.

The man who competes and fails is superior to the man that has never competed....said amongst guys that do competition fighting.