Inbreeding coefficient question - Page 1

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by Mishas on 22 July 2020 - 23:07

Hi,

I'm new to this subject. I'm looking to get a dog without any intention of breeding in the future. He'll be a family pet. What are the highest inbreeding coefficients I should consider? Should I be asking this question in a different way?
Thanks for any advice.

Koots

by Koots on 23 July 2020 - 00:07

The closest line-breeding allowed by the SV is 2-3 or 3-2. I think it's more important, especially for someone with no intention of breeding, to find a breeder who does all health, hip and elbow testing, has dogs with solid, stable character, and a good reputation. If you can find someone local to go visit and see the sire/dam, that's even better. You should also feel good about dealing with the breeder, as if they are concerned with placing their pups into an appropriate home. They should ask you many questions about your lifestyle, your dog experience, what care you will provide, etc. Lastly, and I'm sure that I've forgot some things that others will mention, you should feel that breeder is honest and trustworthy and that you will have a fair transaction.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 23 July 2020 - 03:07

Agree with Koots, I think all the points listed in their post are more important than how closely some of the pups' ancestry is related. Particularly when you are just seeking a companion dog.

It becomes more complicated when you are seeking a dog in order to DO something particular; e.g. compete in certain sports activities; but that is just in relation to the fitness for purpose of the dog itself. I'd still say the same if you WERE considering breeding later, OP, except that then I would add that since you'd probably be coming to breeding as an amateur, the LAST thing you should do would be to 'double up' on ANY dogs in the pedigree of the one you end up buying. You can get the bad along with, or instead of, the good when you don't have a good knowledge of the dogs involved.

Given that you just want a pet, can I ask if you have really thought hard about the breed of dog you are selecting ?

Some new owners get a nasty shock when their puppy turns out to be a baby 'land-shark' rather than a lapdog.


by Hanaki89 on 23 July 2020 - 07:07

This is a very difficult question.
It depends a lot of the breed and where you live.
In most countries it is now illegal to breed a brother with his sister, a father with his daugther, and a mother with her son (25% inbreeding coefficient).
Very high IC such as 12.5% (your dog has two parents and three grand-parents) is not recommended too.
6.25% (your dog has two parents, four grand-parents and six great grand-parents) is still high, but it is "normal" for some rare breeds.
So the answer should be 3.125% (your dog has seven great grand-parents). For most of popular breeds it will be considered as "normal".
I agree with the two previous answers, if you breed a sick dog, his children might be sick. A 12.5% IC dog can be perfectly healthy and a 3.125% very sick.
Keep in mind that your English Bulldog might have more health problems than your Dutch Shepherd whatever the inbreeding coefficient of the dog.



by Mishas on 23 July 2020 - 12:07

Thanks everyone for your responses.
I'm in AZ and will be getting a German Shepherd. I've had them all my life but this would be the first time from a breeder. All the rest were rescues. I'm going with a breeder now so that the puppy can be raised with the cats and be trained to view them as a part of the pack. Please let me know if any of you know of any puppies available in AZ. I can provide my Vet's contact info as a reference.

by Hired Dog on 23 July 2020 - 13:07

Do not limit yourself to one location. There may be some great pups in other areas of the country too and I am sure since you just put it out there, you will get many emails advertising their puppies.
The problem now days is transporting puppies since airlines wont, I had to go through with this a month a go, I know, I drove so much, my butt still hurts.
Look, check, talk to breeders, see what other people have to say about a particular breeder and the dogs they have bred, take your time and do your careful research, it can save you a lot of problems in the years to come.
One final note, make absolutely sure you choose the correct dog that you can live with for the next 10 years plus.

by Mishas on 23 July 2020 - 18:07

@Hired Dog I'm doing all those things. I'm limiting my search to a days drive from Phoenix. I hate flying anyway so that's out of the question, especially now and I wouldn't buy a dog without meeting them in person. There is a constant stream of GSD pups on Craigslist here but I won't support or encourage that activity. I'm looking at shelters too but young pups are rare. I'll be patient.


by Rik on 23 July 2020 - 18:07

if there are clubs near you, might be worth checking out. not sure what is happening in current environment.

by Hired Dog on 23 July 2020 - 18:07

Mishas, I met my puppy the day I picked him up, but, I knew of the breeder and did not worry about the quality of what I was getting. So far, its been a great choice, but, it is a puppy and they are always a gamble regardless of where they come from.
I wish airlines would fly animals, it would have saved me a 40 hour trip over a 2 day drive, but, it is what it is.
Best of luck in finding your puppy.

by GSCat on 23 July 2020 - 23:07

Do your homework about any breeder you're considering before putting down a deposit.

Search the forums here, especially the Scams/Ripoff Reports.
Ask questions of the breeder. Ask for references, including veterinarian
If at all possible, go see the breeder's facility first. It should be clean and not stink like dog pee or rotting dog poo (normal farm smells are OK). All of the dogs and puppies should be healthy and reasonably clean (they roll in the mud, etc., so perfection not necessary). If it's a puppy mill, RUN!
Check BBB.
Check the State Attorney General website and maybe the State Secretary of State website for complaints.
Check with local GSD sport club.
Generally, AKC Puppy Finder is good for showlines, but not working lines.
Take online reviews with a grain of salt. People are more likely to post negative when things go wrong.
Do your homework about the parents/pedigree of any puppy you're considering before giving deposit.

Like Hired Dog, I drove a long way to get my puppy (about 24 hour round trip and a stop at the vet before getting home), and met her when I got to the breeder. She's all of what I had hoped and then some. I would love to be a lot closer to the breeder so we could visit and the breeder could see how her baby has grown up :-)

Happy puppy hunting!




 






 


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