WL + SL = BL??? - Page 16

It doesn't change because most don't want it to change.  They like breeding what they are breeding and make every excuse to do so regardless of the actual dog in front of them.

Felloffher: Marko was considered a SL.

The wonderful thing about WL's is they can still do everything the breed was used for over 20-40 years ago. You still see WL's in all fields of service work, guide dogs, therapy dogs, military, detection, police, SAR, all K9 sports, agility, hunting, fly ball, tracking, obedience, dock diving, herding, live stock protection, personal protection dogs, breed surveys / select shows & tons of loyal family pets. I find it odd that WL's structure / color / movement would be brought up when there are now more V-rated WL's than ever before & whenever most post are asked about people's favorite dogs / most impressive the pages are full of WL's. 

We run a working dog charity fund to agencies that can not afford to purchase a high quality started GSD. We've imported & donated a large amount of dogs over the years now & donated many dogs we've produced & raised ourselves too. The demand for quality GSD's are still there for service, SAR, guide dogs, & police. Of course you need a stable temperament & solid nerves, but you also need drives so the dog will work all day long if required for the next 7-10 years of his life. Obviously most service type working fields want a GSD that still has a off switch when not at work too. These dogs really dog change people's lives & serve a greater good for the community. They love to work & are happy having a rewarding career with their beloved owners.

If we loose the WL's temperaments, drives, generally good health, correct functioning structure, what breed would be left to fill these roles? Mal's lack the temperament for service & guide work majority of the time.
The Belgian Tervuren use to be one of the top sport & working dogs for service / guide / herding / sport / police, etc.. now it just merely a show dog + family pet. Sometimes seen in agility or herding ring.
This has happen to so many of our wonderful breeds?
 .? There are over 300 AKC registered breeds alone  AKC has over 300 registered breeds of dogs, of which more than 95% are for the sole purpose of showing & family pets. If someone wishes to have just an inactive family pet then maybe we should not alter one of the best utility working dogs of all time to suit the needs of these people, but cherish & protect our beloved working breed for the lucky people that should own them.

It's a large risk to start to dilute well bred WL's with SL's in order to correct SL's temperaments, health, structure, & drives. The SL's have been line bred for over 40 years now I do see the many benefits for them to add WL's.
But I don't see the need for WL's to add SL's to their breeding stock. There are TONS of SG & V rated WL's now. Yes some WL's do have extreme drives for top sport titles, but these same dogs are also in demand from police & SAR. But those dogs are NOT the majority in the WL's. Every 20+ happy WL living in a family home with balance drives & stable temperament, compared to many one extreme drive dog out of the 20.

I've owned SL's before & even mixed the lines together many years ago. I'm not totally againist SL's & seen some very nice SL's recently. But when you compare #'s you'll always count on WL's for their stability & working drives. 
I don't anyone that has ever needed a GSD to go into a flying trot after a lost person / catch a bad guy / lead the blind / help the disable, or even herd sheep. The over all structure of the SL would add a disadvantage to the true working function of the WL's. I don't see any major benefits in SL's temperament / drives that are lacking in WL's? Other than color what is the point of combining WL & SL?

When I need a more balance drive dogs for certain fields I pair the right WL's together for the desire results in the offspring. You don't need to add SL's for this result. 
Same is true if we need super high driven dogs, then we'll once again select the correct pairs for that end result in WL's.

I also included one of my WL females, who has a beautiful structure & movement, yet can still work & has plenty of drives. You can see her bite work in my avatar also.



Couple of pic's from out last litter from WL's. These puppies are in training to be guide dogs:


I would love to say our WL's are special & unquic, but they are not. I've seen tons of well bred WL's being imported all the time or bred here in the USA.

 

  

Felloffher: Marko was considered a SL.


Charlie,
 
  Cphudson's female in the post above is very similar looks wise to Marko, don't you think? I bet she also has the type of temperament many breeders would like to produce. So, would it not be easier to breed these types of GSD's since they already exist and wash your hands of the current lines used in the show world?

 

Nice attempt... Without any disrespect to CPHudson's products. Marko was a sieger. Similar is a very broad concept. Look up Eiko vom Kirshental.

Nice side step on the question.

CP'S female is beautiful!  I would send her on a date with this handsome fellow!! : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHf5_fIvyyM
 
Sorry just can't help myself!!! 

  Actually looks like she is already taken, also by another handsome fella!  Good luck with that breeding CP.  Bet those puppies will be awesome!

Felloffher: I thought Eiko was a Nice backhand return to your captious question. While I won't speculate on particular dogs, part of the reason I like Marko is because of civil and reactive aggresion that is not conducive to high scores and thus not often seen even in WL. Bootie dogs are plentiful, which is why malís have made inroads in the MWD and police markets. But that will open another argument.

had to look it up.

captious: 1. apt to notice and make much of trivial faults or defects; faultfinding; difficult to please.
              2.proceeding from a faultfinding or caviling disposition: He could never praise without adding a captious remark.
              3. apt or designed to ensnare or perplex, especially in argument: captious questions. 

It was a leading question seeking a negative coment on the pups. It only takes malice to stir trouble... It takes more than that to argue a point.