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by susie on 25 May 2013 - 16:05
This I posted further above: "It´s about handling of stress, hardness, courage, concentration, sensibility, and on and on ( Sorry, I can´t translate most of my thoughts, lack of English...)"
Trainability is ONE aspect...
Trainability is ONE aspect...
by joanro on 25 May 2013 - 16:05
Susie, once again, I agree with you; training in itself is not identical with sport, and I never said it was.
Yes, I have trained, not just green dog, but raised from eight week old puppies, trained and titled five dogs, all very very different type of dogs and required very different training for all five.
First dog was a Komondor, in 1988, AKC CD. One of three Komondor in the USA to achieve CD title.
My other dogs which I trained, I titled in schH. They were one GSL male, one Czech PZ male, and one Czech female. All three of these dogs were as different and at different ends of scale in temperament as you can find in one breed.
BH on female first, next weekend at a different trial, BHs on the two males.
Couple weeks later I put sch1 on Czech male.
One week later, different state, different trial, I put schH 1 on the female.
Two weeks later, different state, different trial, I put schH2 on the female and schh1 on the GSL male the same day.
Three months ago, I put CGC's on four of my young dogs on the same day (not a big deal, but the dogs had fun).
Two months ago, put CGC on another of my young dogs two days after I was discharged from the hospital (three days in hosp.), just for something to do.
All of those dogs I raised and trained them myself, I did not have anyone telling me what method would work best for this or that. Training dogs is not something I learned at the schH club, (or else I would probably still be trying to get my first BH) I've been making my living training dogs, horses, camels, Brahman bulls (under saddle), goats to harness, a yak, halter broke two American Bison, and sled dogs. ( from puppies I raised, and with no trained dog to start them with. I started the teams from scratch. Had two six dog teams and four dogs in one of the teams could be used as gee/haw leaders)
So I do know what training is about and how invaluable it is in learning what your dog is made of. I also know that training can mask temperament faults in a dog or horse. But no matter how much training is put into them, the truth of the dog will come to the surface when put under pressure which has not been 'trained' for.
Yes, I have trained, not just green dog, but raised from eight week old puppies, trained and titled five dogs, all very very different type of dogs and required very different training for all five.
First dog was a Komondor, in 1988, AKC CD. One of three Komondor in the USA to achieve CD title.
My other dogs which I trained, I titled in schH. They were one GSL male, one Czech PZ male, and one Czech female. All three of these dogs were as different and at different ends of scale in temperament as you can find in one breed.
BH on female first, next weekend at a different trial, BHs on the two males.
Couple weeks later I put sch1 on Czech male.
One week later, different state, different trial, I put schH 1 on the female.
Two weeks later, different state, different trial, I put schH2 on the female and schh1 on the GSL male the same day.
Three months ago, I put CGC's on four of my young dogs on the same day (not a big deal, but the dogs had fun).
Two months ago, put CGC on another of my young dogs two days after I was discharged from the hospital (three days in hosp.), just for something to do.
All of those dogs I raised and trained them myself, I did not have anyone telling me what method would work best for this or that. Training dogs is not something I learned at the schH club, (or else I would probably still be trying to get my first BH) I've been making my living training dogs, horses, camels, Brahman bulls (under saddle), goats to harness, a yak, halter broke two American Bison, and sled dogs. ( from puppies I raised, and with no trained dog to start them with. I started the teams from scratch. Had two six dog teams and four dogs in one of the teams could be used as gee/haw leaders)
So I do know what training is about and how invaluable it is in learning what your dog is made of. I also know that training can mask temperament faults in a dog or horse. But no matter how much training is put into them, the truth of the dog will come to the surface when put under pressure which has not been 'trained' for.
by joanro on 25 May 2013 - 17:05
FWIW,the horses, Brahman bulls, six dog team, (forgot to mention my Smooth fox terriers which I raised, trained and used 25 years ago), I traveled all over the US and part of Canada performing with them for my living. So they had to be able to work and perform for an audience in all types of venues: buildings with black house and spot lights, outdoor arenas during thunderstorms with mud literally past my horses' knees and the dogs belly deep.....railroad tracks that were six deep, trains blasting by nonstop, close enough to throw a rock and hit one. My animals had to perform consistently, every performance, in order to get hired for those shows. So yes, I know what training is and isn't when it comes to evaluating temperament and nerves in dogs, (and horses and Bramers, for that matter).
by Blitzen on 25 May 2013 - 17:05
I should have said ASL breeders don't generally require any sort of performance testing for their dogs. I am seeing more with OB and herding titles and doing service dog work,etc so that's a good sign I think. Some ASL breeders health test beyond hips and elbows, not all by a long shot. I just feel as if it's asking for trouble to not prove GSD's in some way prior to breeding them. Doing the appropriate health testing goes without saying.
by Blitzen on 25 May 2013 - 17:05
Joanro, that's a very impressive resume'. I didn't know that or that you had sleddogs too. So did I, but mine fought so much that I never was able to run many of them together 
. I should have known you then LOL.
. I should have known you then LOL.by desert dog on 25 May 2013 - 17:05
Joanro,
I could not agree more. That why you have good dogs. I live in a valley that is between two ranges of hills. The Rattlesnake hills and horse heaven hills. There isn't much except sage brush, rocks, dry land wheat and cattle. A friend of mine has a place there and runs 4 or 5 hundred head of some of the meanest dang cattle you ever saw. They don't see many humans as they are growing. He has 3 dogs, they know their names and what whoa means. He kicks those dogs out 13 miles from home, and those dogs bring in the cattle by themselves and corral them. Then the next day they work the chutes for branding, delousing and worming. Same deal they know their name and whoa. He signals them to go around, they go around. Has for the last 40 years I've known him always had a high demand for dogs. They work every day all day where there aint much but badgers,coyote, rattle snakes and sagebrush. I am sure these dogs would look like fools in a herding trial, and would certainly get disqualified for temperament since they will eat you up if you try to touch one. But 6 cowboys with the best trained horses couldn't compete with these dogs for getting work done.
These dogs are trained doing work not trained to do work. Dogs no matter how they are trained are trained to some degree just by living. If you shove one out the door for peeing on the carpet is that not ? "to a low degree" When you holler at a dog for jumping over a fence is that not training. There aint nothing wrong with a dog jumping over a picnic table if you tell him to. What one person does and seems right does not make it totally right for every person or every aspect of work. The dogs above are world class dogs for the part of the world he lives in. And he could care less about selling a dog. He breeds what he needs and seldom sells one. most often just give them to a neighbor or who ever bugs him enough.
Hank
I could not agree more. That why you have good dogs. I live in a valley that is between two ranges of hills. The Rattlesnake hills and horse heaven hills. There isn't much except sage brush, rocks, dry land wheat and cattle. A friend of mine has a place there and runs 4 or 5 hundred head of some of the meanest dang cattle you ever saw. They don't see many humans as they are growing. He has 3 dogs, they know their names and what whoa means. He kicks those dogs out 13 miles from home, and those dogs bring in the cattle by themselves and corral them. Then the next day they work the chutes for branding, delousing and worming. Same deal they know their name and whoa. He signals them to go around, they go around. Has for the last 40 years I've known him always had a high demand for dogs. They work every day all day where there aint much but badgers,coyote, rattle snakes and sagebrush. I am sure these dogs would look like fools in a herding trial, and would certainly get disqualified for temperament since they will eat you up if you try to touch one. But 6 cowboys with the best trained horses couldn't compete with these dogs for getting work done.
These dogs are trained doing work not trained to do work. Dogs no matter how they are trained are trained to some degree just by living. If you shove one out the door for peeing on the carpet is that not ? "to a low degree" When you holler at a dog for jumping over a fence is that not training. There aint nothing wrong with a dog jumping over a picnic table if you tell him to. What one person does and seems right does not make it totally right for every person or every aspect of work. The dogs above are world class dogs for the part of the world he lives in. And he could care less about selling a dog. He breeds what he needs and seldom sells one. most often just give them to a neighbor or who ever bugs him enough.
Hank
by susie on 25 May 2013 - 18:05
A yak? Nothing else to say about training - I just keep quiet...
by joanro on 25 May 2013 - 18:05
@ Susie, ROFL ! &:-)
by joanro on 25 May 2013 - 19:05
From the archiives of Joan Ronalder. Top pic, Somewhere, Michigan 1994(just remembered, that was Sparta, Michigan)
Opening night at Pompano Racetrack, Pompano, Florida 1976.
Sled dog pictures to follow later. Have to go clean kennels now.
by Blitzen on 25 May 2013 - 20:05
Joanro, that is the most impressive thing I've ever seen or heard about anyone I know. How many times did you get hurt ?
I won't embarrass you anymore other than to say you should really write a book about your life. Not many women have done what you have done.
I won't embarrass you anymore other than to say you should really write a book about your life. Not many women have done what you have done.
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