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by Hired Dog on 18 March 2014 - 18:03
I know of none here Suzie. The facts are that when the "pure" Malinois, no such thing really, can no longer do it, Malinois breeders will breed them with whatever they feel will get the job done. This "trend" as you called it has been going on for over 20 years and whats fueling it is the lack of the "traditional" breed that was able to get the job done, the GSD.
The malinois being my favorite breed, I am NOT blind to it Suzie, in my opinion, 70% of the Malinois out there today...ummm, lets just say they have a screw or 7 loose...in 35 years in the breed, I can count the ones I have seen that were clear headed/stable, but, its those same over the top drives that makes them so popular in police and military circles.
The malinois being my favorite breed, I am NOT blind to it Suzie, in my opinion, 70% of the Malinois out there today...ummm, lets just say they have a screw or 7 loose...in 35 years in the breed, I can count the ones I have seen that were clear headed/stable, but, its those same over the top drives that makes them so popular in police and military circles.
by susie on 18 March 2014 - 19:03
Yes, I´m German, and I hate to see dogs sitting in shelters. Not many dogs over here, though, but mostly Bull-breeds, followed by German Shepherds, and nowadays already followed by Malinois....
In former times the Germans as a whole knew about the breeds and their temperament, dog clubs at every single corner, you didn´t see working breeds in town, people knew they are no pets.
But even over here nowadays people start buying working breeds as pets, breeders do produce whatever the market demands... and a lot of these dogs end up in shelters.
The Malinois is the "runner up" for some years now, it´s difficult to find a quality Mal, it´s about quantity and money.
Now we are totally off topic, but I´ll never get why people / including breeders are trying to change dogs into something they aren´t and never were supposed to be.Sled dogs in an appartement, hunt dogs in the middle of the town, guard dogs surrounded by strangers. If I want to own a pet dog, there are enough breeds to choose from.
The loosers in this game always are the dogs following their instincts.
In former times the Germans as a whole knew about the breeds and their temperament, dog clubs at every single corner, you didn´t see working breeds in town, people knew they are no pets.
But even over here nowadays people start buying working breeds as pets, breeders do produce whatever the market demands... and a lot of these dogs end up in shelters.
The Malinois is the "runner up" for some years now, it´s difficult to find a quality Mal, it´s about quantity and money.
Now we are totally off topic, but I´ll never get why people / including breeders are trying to change dogs into something they aren´t and never were supposed to be.Sled dogs in an appartement, hunt dogs in the middle of the town, guard dogs surrounded by strangers. If I want to own a pet dog, there are enough breeds to choose from.
The loosers in this game always are the dogs following their instincts.
by Hired Dog on 18 March 2014 - 19:03
Now THIS last post Suzie, I am with you 100%.
by Gustav on 18 March 2014 - 19:03
Smiley, look up as much information as you can find on Bernd v Kallergarten, Troll v Richterbach, and Bodo v Lierberg and you will find some info about some of the dogs that were in a lot of these lines.
by GSDNewbie on 18 March 2014 - 20:03
I dont consider a working gsd one just because it will bite for real. I used these dogs in serach and rescue and currently have one working as my service dog. I think to many regard the gsd for schutzhund and biting and have lost track of other work. Mine comes from herding and schutzhund. He LOVES to work. I do know even though he is a service dog he will bite and for real. Most importantly he knows when working as a service dog he is NOT to bite. He is extremely discerning which I need for my medical conditions. He is an intelligent thinker/ problem solver. Old style dominant, ie not what fad dominance has become, and he is THE working dog it took me ten years to obtain from what I remember gsds being growing up. They do exist but as long as people only breed to the VA current flavor for money, even those will be gone. Only a fool does not see the same road ahead that is already being traveled by the Mal breed as well.
by Smiley on 18 March 2014 - 22:03
Gustav.....thank you...I will!!!
Regarding Mals...I have very limited experience...I think they look like mutts (so very sorry) but that's another story! I did train with a Mondio club for a bit and also saw a Mal work alongside a GSD as owner had both but was training mal for police (she owned the gsd). I will say this....those dogs are FREAKING NUTS!!! I mean..over the top...INSANE...crazy nuts!!!!!! Like, they just fling themselves through the air with no regard to their own safety. They don't have an off switch or even much of a dimmer switch!!! They are always on edge is the only way I can describe it!! I remember watching one in bitework and it got so worked up it turned and attacked its owner! I was freaking out but the Mondio people were just like..yeah, Mals just do that sometimes. Yikes!!!!!
The Mal I saw that was with the GSD was..like the other ones...very, very intense. I honestly could not see having a dog like that in my house with my young child. But, he didn't attack me or anything which was a plus!! When it was his turn to work..he rocketed out of his crate like he was on fire...scared the crap out of me!! haha But, case in point...we were tracking. She tracked with the GSD and he did beautifully. When at end she had some of his kibble in plastic container. So, he downed at end and waited for the container to be opened. Next, the Mal went and he flew through track (but very accurate) and then actually was so intense he ATE through the plastic to get kibble and actually ate the container- much to the horror of trainer. Interestingly, the trainer has a personal Mal for Mondio but actually breeds GSDs as her breed of choice!!! So, I guess they are good working dogs for the right type of person or police or whatver and I am sure they are probably great at what they do!!! But, you could not give me one of those dogs for free...no freaking way!!!!
Regarding Mals...I have very limited experience...I think they look like mutts (so very sorry) but that's another story! I did train with a Mondio club for a bit and also saw a Mal work alongside a GSD as owner had both but was training mal for police (she owned the gsd). I will say this....those dogs are FREAKING NUTS!!! I mean..over the top...INSANE...crazy nuts!!!!!! Like, they just fling themselves through the air with no regard to their own safety. They don't have an off switch or even much of a dimmer switch!!! They are always on edge is the only way I can describe it!! I remember watching one in bitework and it got so worked up it turned and attacked its owner! I was freaking out but the Mondio people were just like..yeah, Mals just do that sometimes. Yikes!!!!!
The Mal I saw that was with the GSD was..like the other ones...very, very intense. I honestly could not see having a dog like that in my house with my young child. But, he didn't attack me or anything which was a plus!! When it was his turn to work..he rocketed out of his crate like he was on fire...scared the crap out of me!! haha But, case in point...we were tracking. She tracked with the GSD and he did beautifully. When at end she had some of his kibble in plastic container. So, he downed at end and waited for the container to be opened. Next, the Mal went and he flew through track (but very accurate) and then actually was so intense he ATE through the plastic to get kibble and actually ate the container- much to the horror of trainer. Interestingly, the trainer has a personal Mal for Mondio but actually breeds GSDs as her breed of choice!!! So, I guess they are good working dogs for the right type of person or police or whatver and I am sure they are probably great at what they do!!! But, you could not give me one of those dogs for free...no freaking way!!!!
by Hired Dog on 18 March 2014 - 23:03
And thats why i love my malinois smiley.
by Jim Engel on 19 March 2014 - 00:03
OK What we see here is a broad agreement, the Malinois is emerging
as the better dog for police and serious sport, and the GSD is the "nice"
dog that "ordinary" people like.
But we are missing a point about these "ordinary" people.
They want to believe that they have a "real" police dog.
Over the past 20 years as the Malinois has become
predominant in real work and sport work something
has happened to these "ordinary" German Shepherd
purchasers.
They are beginning to see that they have pretend dogs, or
the other way around, what they are being offered is
pretend real man German Shepherds.
2 out of 3 Germans who were purchasing a GSD in 1994 or 95
are buying something else today. Look at the registration numbers.
http://www.vdh.de/ueber-den-vdh/welpenstatistik/?suche=&sort=Rasse&go=Go%2521
If things keep going in this way, Germans will be buying more Golden and
Labrador retrievers than GSD within six or seven years.
People are doing two things, admitting to themselves that they
want a softer dog, a perfectly valid preference, or ceasing to believe
that the GSD is any more a "real man working dog."
The bubble is bursting.
as the better dog for police and serious sport, and the GSD is the "nice"
dog that "ordinary" people like.
But we are missing a point about these "ordinary" people.
They want to believe that they have a "real" police dog.
Over the past 20 years as the Malinois has become
predominant in real work and sport work something
has happened to these "ordinary" German Shepherd
purchasers.
They are beginning to see that they have pretend dogs, or
the other way around, what they are being offered is
pretend real man German Shepherds.
2 out of 3 Germans who were purchasing a GSD in 1994 or 95
are buying something else today. Look at the registration numbers.
http://www.vdh.de/ueber-den-vdh/welpenstatistik/?suche=&sort=Rasse&go=Go%2521
If things keep going in this way, Germans will be buying more Golden and
Labrador retrievers than GSD within six or seven years.
People are doing two things, admitting to themselves that they
want a softer dog, a perfectly valid preference, or ceasing to believe
that the GSD is any more a "real man working dog."
The bubble is bursting.
by Smiley on 19 March 2014 - 01:03
Hired Dog......to each his own!!!
by Smiley on 19 March 2014 - 01:03
On another note...has ONE SINGLE PERSON on here seen an American bred GSD dog that was doing ok in IPO/Police or has anyone ever had one? If so, could you share the bloodlines.....
I mean....could it really be possible that there is ZERO cross over and not even an American X German cross out there doing IPO/Police?
At this point....I even add...does one single person know of a solid American guide dog for the blind. Didn't they use to be all GSDs? Do guide dog programs still use GSDs and if so, are there any American lines doing it?
I mean....could it really be possible that there is ZERO cross over and not even an American X German cross out there doing IPO/Police?
At this point....I even add...does one single person know of a solid American guide dog for the blind. Didn't they use to be all GSDs? Do guide dog programs still use GSDs and if so, are there any American lines doing it?
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