color genetics - Page 8

lol, I've even brought home the mother to VA Wupp Urbecke, bred to VA Yasko.  all I will say is psycho bitch! she finally got ahold of a rescue and about broke the dogs neck.

ATARTHS - Go read up on simple coat pattern phenotypes before commenting. 

"In fact even if his father was black or sable he would have to be mated to a black bitch in order to produce black puppies."

This is an incorrect statement.  All that is needed for black puppies offspring is for heterozygote parents that each carry the black recessive trait. 

"Only black & brown pups can be born when both parents are black & brown: No matter how many of their ancestors were sable."

This statement is also incorrect, assuming that by 'Black & Brown', you mean 'Black & Tan'.  Again, all that is needed for Black & Tan offsprings is for AT LEAST 1 parent to be either Black & Tan OR Sable with the Black & Tan recessive allele.  

For instance, say the bitch is a Sable with the Black & Tan recessive (the genotype of my wifes dog, actually) and the Sire is Black.  In that case, you would get 50% Sables (with the black recessive) and 50% Black & Tans (also with the black recessive). 

agates 1,
Its true that heterozygote parents carrying tha black recessive trait can produce black pups I admit I didnt put that down entirely correctly , but what I was pointing out there was that two B/T parents simply CANNOT produce any other colour BUT Black and tan(Brown). Again, "Only black & brown pups can be born when both parents are black & brown: No matter how many of their ancestors were sable."
The hereditary transmission of the sable color is dominant, not recessive
This means, and this is absolutely certain,
Only when at least one of the parents is sable itself, a sable pup can be born.


Go read up your phenotypes better and come back with your queeries.
 

Ubre land
thus according to your statement above all dogs all over the world are "terrible" except your liver carriers. You can not be as silly as such assumption. The problem also is that what you are calling Czech dogs or DDR dogs are not such. They are however concoction of breeders who have thrown 2, according to you, excellent dogs without having any basic knowledge of these lines, knowledge of all particular dogs on the pedigree, their faults and virtues and knowledge to match them properly by compensating for problems by virtues. Howdy dowdy breeding like this called Czech or DDR lines is laughable. You must not expect excellent progeny by throwing together two dogs because they are excellent!!!! It is not that simple!!!! If it would be so simple then anybody and yes,  even you, could then breed perfect dogs:)
Just because there was a Norbo somewhere in the pedigree does not assure all dogs in progeny to have good hips.
Also   I can assure you that I am breeding dogs for decades and have had no such problems in any appreciable amount if at all. If you can not generate decent dogs from Czech /DDR lines then how you going to breed your livers could be questioned probably with great success.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

did I say every other dog in the world was shit? no I didn't.  I did say all my problems have came from those lines.  didn't say there were nice dogs from those lines.  the czech ddr dogs I have had have come from your competitors, and I guess you are the only person in the world who can put 2 ddr/czech dogs together and have a nice litter.

you still have not provided any solid proof to what you say about these colors.  it angers you soo much that I have liver carriers and may breed them if health tests check out.  but you would say nothing if I decided to work with the genetic timebomb shilohs.

my czech/ddr females sire was from Waldkonig kennel (the sire is with Schraderhaus now, Lux) and her mother was from van den hueval kennel.

figured my last post sounded a little ugly, so we might as well agree to disagree on this subject.  you feel these colors are genetic time bombs and a disgrace to the breed, I do not.  of all the people I know who have these colors as pets, and the ones who breed them, I have not heard of or found 1 major issue associated with these  colors except for CDA, and it has already been pointed out, dogs homozygous for the CDA gene are easily recognized and can be removed from your breeding program, and there is a genetic test to determine the carriers. 

WaldKonig kennels and Van den heuvel are not Czech or DDR   breeders! Thus you have just made my point.
By the way I have had a closer look at your avatar.
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6043
Prager Hans

So these are not DDR line dogs? V Lux vom Kameruner Eck and V Saskia vom Schäferliesel

and these are not czech bred dogs?  6X WUSV/FCI SCHH3,IPO3,ZVV2,BORDER PATROL 5KVS/55
VELMI DOBRY NORBO BEN-JU and Molly Rapacov ?

and what is your point about my avatar Prager?   are we taking personal jabs now? Guess it would be ok if I had an avatar showing a bottle of jack Daniels.

again, no solid proof of what you say about these colors

Uber land it is not just what quality dogs you breed but also how you combine them.  I have mention your avatar because people who smoke dope do not remember what was sait 10 seconds ago. Like you. Just  2 posts ago I have expalined what I mean about breeding 2 unmatched quality dogs and produce lesser dogs. Howeve like so many times before  you either not read it, or don't care  and ramble on and on or  forget what was said 10 seconds or 2 posts ago. Just like someone smoking pot:)
Just to remind you and answer your question again:
 ........They are however concoction of breeders who have thrown 2, according to you, excellent dogs without having any basic knowledge of these lines, knowledge of all particular dogs on the pedigree, their faults and virtues and knowledge to match them properly by compensating for problems by virtues. Howdy dowdy breeding like this called Czech or DDR lines is laughable. You must not expect excellent progeny by throwing together two dogs because they are excellent!!!! It is not that simple!!!! If it would be so simple then anybody and yes, even you, could then breed perfect dogs:)
Just because there was a Norbo somewhere in the pedigree does not assure all dogs in progeny to have good hips.
Also I can assure you that I am breeding dogs for decades and have had no such problems in any appreciable amount if at all. If you can not generate decent dogs from Czech /DDR lines then how you going to breed your livers could be questioned probably with great success.
  Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

Jesus Prager, you need to get your facts straight, first, just because I support legalization, does not mean I smoke dope!  I have drug tests done every month because I have a contract with my medical Dr.  if they found "dope" in my system, I would have my pain medication taken away!

you know how many MILLIONS of american and many very succesful people who do smoke, BTW? you know how many diseases and ailments the marijuana helps? do you know that Prop. 19 in Calif nearly passed, but the tobacco and alcohol companies paid out billions to stop it? 

don't be an ass Prager, just cause someone stated they had problems with czech and DDR dogs. a little peaon like me could in no way hurt your business.  you are not the only person who has done this for decades.  there are many other successful breeders and importers besides you.

again, quit trying to break me down, and supply solid proof to your statements about these colors causing or attributing to gnetic health problems in this breed.

Oh wait, you can't.  you can only compare them to studies done on rodents, which someone else already pointed out was like comparing apples to oranges.