Return that dog. - Page 8

you need to re read your own post jenni . you flat out said there are many reasons to rehome a dog but NOT WORKING OUT AS EXPECTED is a sorry ass reason.... wtf. Why is that so horrible? i would think the mommys on here would think it more horrible to do that to a 3-4yr old dog and not one thats only been with its owner for 8mo. SMH Go figure..lol

the revolving door... So many on here think that if i receive a 2mo old puppy in january and by december i decide the puppy is not gonna be what im looking for and i sell/place the dog where he is loved and cared for and i do this for 6yrs until i find what im looking for im a bad.person for placing 5 puppys into homes at 13mo of age? first off i woud hope that doesnt happe with due diligence. I think we need do define REVOLVING DOOR first off.

I think a bunch of people are just talking semantics and trying to define and re-define what is and is not acceptable when buying/raising dogs, mostly out of defensiveness, since they know they are indulging in actions that are shameful.  The fundamental question is, are people treating these living/breathing/loving creatures as disposable commodities. or are people big enough to look at them as individuals who are (and need to be) a part of a loving home......while doing everything else that a working dog does.

My problem with the "commodity" crowd is that they have no emotional investment tied to the dogs they "procure".  Purely commoditized items that can be bought and sold on an as-needed basis.  The dogs themselves, after arriving into such places, spends time in outside crates with no interaction with the people of the house, until the re-sale or re-homing happens through the "revolving door". These are the people that are referred by Prager in his first post and who should be blacklisted by the rest of the dog community, the second one of their "returns" take place, to ensure that they will no longer be able to put their greedy paws on another hapless shepherd.

Quoting Von Stephanitz, the breed-founder of the GSD, on shepherds and the results of their arriving in such a place versus being in a loving home where he/she is a full, valued and participatory member of the house:

"All the wonderful qualities of character possessed by a good shepherd dog will therefore only be brought to light when he remains in the same hands for a very long time, preferably from puppyhood, where having obtained a footing in the house, he shares the joys and sorrows of the family...and our dog is completely ruined in mind and body wherever he is treated only as merchandise..."

I do find it very ironic that one 'breeder' on here has stated vehemently she
'wouldn't want to sell a dog to someone that would give the dog up if it had 
a problem', yet did just that recently with a puppy from a recent litter.
The new owner (co-owner?) stated publically she has returned many for the very
fact the dog/puppy didn't have 'what it took' to be a breeding dog.
You see? THIS is where people question the logic behind this 'breeder'.
Is it don't do as I do, do as I say? Or it's only ok if it's someone the 'breeder'
knows etc etc. I'm pretty sure the 'breeder' herself has went through a number 
of dogs in the last 2 years alone. Is it only wrong if someone else does it?

For the record, I don't believe there is anything wrong with someone purchasing
a puppy to raise up, train and title with the end goal of possibly breeding. What's so
wrong with that? It's not because they are cheap. Perhaps these people don't like
to walk in another persons success and work, and choose not to spend money
on something they can do themselves, and learn a shitload about the dog in the 
very same process of titling. Not everyone wants or needs to bust out a checkbook
and start writing for instant gratification. They like to do things the old school way.
Nothing wrong with either method, but just because someone wants to purchase
a puppy and work their way up doesn't mean they are 'cheap'. It means they aren't
afraid of hard work and taking a chance.

By the way, don't be so sure your bitch wasn't offered for sale before she was
'specially selected for you', she was offered to your  'mentor' through a very well
known dog broker in Germany. They were the same couple that also had a male
your 'mentor' bought, 'Durbas', in fact,  I'm pretty sure  they also had Snoopy Fasanarie
posted for sale too. 

If someone wants to wash a dog/puppy out, I have no problem with it, so long as they
find a suitable home for the animal. If the 'breeder' requires the dog be returned for
replacement, they should not think the buyer is of poor character for doing just that.
If a buyer chooses not to keep and 'stock pile' dogs and puppies that don't work out
for whatever reason, that's not a bad thing is it? Not every person has the ability to 
keep umpteen dogs. Nor do they want to. Nothing wrong with that. I don't understand 
why a buyer should be burned at the stake for washing out a dog, yet breeders and 
brokers go through dogs like used car salesmen? 

Buying and selling dogs is not forbidden, neither in Germany nor elsewhere, there were and will be always reasons to buy and sell a dog.
Moral and ethics is something everybody has to think about on his own.

It´s "normal" for German Shephers owners worldwide to raise and keep their dogs in kennels, it´s even "normal" for some people to keep them in crates.
It´s "normal" to train them, but for a lot of them it´s not normal to walk them.
It´s "normal" to sell a healthy sound dog, if it´s not suitable for high points, it´s "normal" to sell the dog if it doesn´t win on the shows.

Vomeisenhaus, I am NO MOMMY at all, but sometimes people should think about their life and their goals.
You don´t need to be a mommy to think about life, even men are said to be able to think sometimes...
Most of the people training and showing their dogs are no "professionals" even if they think so...
At one point in their life their ethics changed -  way back they started in dogsport  with their beloved "pet", and after a while they don´t think about their pets needs anymore, but about their own goals (been there, done that).
They may not even be good trainers/handlers, but it´s easier to change the dog than to change yourself. There are people out there changing their dogs like shirts, always hoping for the winner.
Formerly totally normal people start to identify themselves about their success in dogsport - the sport becomes their life, the dog isn´t important anymore.

In my personal opinion ( moral/ethics ) after being in the cicuit for decades this kind of thinking is wrong. Our dogs are no tennis rackets, they are living animals.

Wasn't the topic about a Gurantee from the breeder: that if the  puppy doesnt become a great sports dog and breeder etc, that they can return the dog and get a replacement.

Now it seems the topic is just about rehoming dogs -is it ethical or not..................  Seems pretty simple to me  - the Topic does say "Return that dog".........

I would like to add that any puppy, I sell,  if  some reason they don't work out, I take them back - there is not a gurantee that they will get replacement because of the circumstances, they didnt get top scores or the dog just didn't work out.    The gurantee is this:  I will take them back...........  To offer that kind of gurantee would cut my throat for years to come as a breeder..................

Yogie

edit to add: vomeisenhaus  did you honestly ask for this kind of gurantee from Alpine K9?  I see nothing wrong with rehoming a dog that didnt work out for you - but why hold a breeder acountable for this?

At the risk of being told, I think too much and analyze too much..and since some humanize dogs, I leave you with this thought for your sunday musing. Note this interesting analogy with humans: some folks date perpetually, others prefer a monogamous relationship and others cycle through spouses. All of these things are acceptable to society, though the monogamous relationship is preferred. Pl. also note: that its the hollywood stars who typically go through spouses/dates like used cars, which may have certain similarities with the stars in the dog sport world, who also salivate at other people's dogs. None of these options are considered unacceptable for humans who are thinking, loving emotional beings, so why for dogs ?

Aakay are you for real? you just described your hero hans to a T lmaoo. And lets remember here tbat hans post is a response i made to him in reference to him bashing a buyer for returning a dysplastic pup back to its breeder. so what do people here think of someone who buys a WORKING LINE FEMALE who is young and in her prime, gets honestly titled by their loving family in europe and in the prime of her life is shipped off to AMERIKA to someone who does not work dogs in ANY VENUE and keeps it full of $1500 puppies for the next 4yrs??? i call that a VERY LOVED COMMODITY. and for the record jenni the reason i never read your posts in its entirety is because yoh talking of anything other than your educated health knowledge is nothing more than BLAH BLAH BLAH.

To guddu:  ...because dogs don´t have the freedom to decide by themselves.

In 99,9% they are victim, not perpetrator.

Vomeisenhaus: ......., gets honestly titled by their loving family in europe

Sorry to tell you, but normally there is no loving family. The dog was born in a kennel, raised in a kennel, trained in a rush, and sold for money.
If the German trainer has childeren, the children don´t care about the dog, because too many dogs already were sold.