This is a placeholder text
Group text
by bazza on 30 October 2010 - 09:10
So, what you are saying is YOU do not have ANY REAL PROOF,? Where are these insiders that will testify? Sure wish some of them would come here and back you up, 'cause I'm one that needs concrete proof and not hearsay, gossip, or bitter, disgruntled, backstabbers!!
by Abby Normal on 30 October 2010 - 10:10
@ Videx
Yes, you criticised the SV in your impressions, mainly for the overheight issue, with the implication that CHEATING was going on in this area. However, your 'solution' to this was to suggest that the breed standard should be changed to accommodate oversized dogs! In 2007 impressions you went on to make the statement : "Our current breed standard states the ideal size for a male is 62.5 cms - what a joke - how many males do you see of this size among the thousands at the Sieger Show? It then goes on to allow 2.5 cms either side of this ideal. Can you even imagine a male of 60 cms; I would collapse in hysterics if I ever saw one" The important part of that statement was how many do you see at a Sieger Show of correct size. You see many, many dogs of CORRECT size elsewhere. The GSD is not meant to be a 'giant' breed, but both you and the SV would seemingly willingly change it to one. Can I ask WHY ???
These dogs are correct international GSD only IF you change the standard to suit! Well it's been what is happening for years, so why not.....
You stated other 'concerns' (2006) like: "the judging of this class left me perplexed to say the least". One might wonder after making such a statement whether there were 'other reasons' for such placements in the classes? Reasons that have been raised before by people like Jantie? Not exactly a stretch is it, if one accepts your expertise in judging a GSD ?
This conflict of acceptance that there is skulduggery going on in certain areas, but stout defense of far more important areas where skulduggery is 'likely' going on
confounds me. Why is it to hard to see that where there is one underhand practice going on due to politics and money it is likely to be the happening in other areas?
And then you stopped writing your 'impressions'....
Yes, you criticised the SV in your impressions, mainly for the overheight issue, with the implication that CHEATING was going on in this area. However, your 'solution' to this was to suggest that the breed standard should be changed to accommodate oversized dogs! In 2007 impressions you went on to make the statement : "Our current breed standard states the ideal size for a male is 62.5 cms - what a joke - how many males do you see of this size among the thousands at the Sieger Show? It then goes on to allow 2.5 cms either side of this ideal. Can you even imagine a male of 60 cms; I would collapse in hysterics if I ever saw one" The important part of that statement was how many do you see at a Sieger Show of correct size. You see many, many dogs of CORRECT size elsewhere. The GSD is not meant to be a 'giant' breed, but both you and the SV would seemingly willingly change it to one. Can I ask WHY ???
These dogs are correct international GSD only IF you change the standard to suit! Well it's been what is happening for years, so why not.....
You stated other 'concerns' (2006) like: "the judging of this class left me perplexed to say the least". One might wonder after making such a statement whether there were 'other reasons' for such placements in the classes? Reasons that have been raised before by people like Jantie? Not exactly a stretch is it, if one accepts your expertise in judging a GSD ?
This conflict of acceptance that there is skulduggery going on in certain areas, but stout defense of far more important areas where skulduggery is 'likely' going on
confounds me. Why is it to hard to see that where there is one underhand practice going on due to politics and money it is likely to be the happening in other areas?
And then you stopped writing your 'impressions'....
by Videx on 30 October 2010 - 11:10
It is clear that few of you understand the variations of evidence and correct procedures required to prove someone guilty of a specific offense.
Circumstantial evidence needs to be somewhat overwhelming, and there has been too many wrong convictions.
Someone guilty of a crime or wrong doing some years ago, does NOT make them automatically guilty of a wrong doing this year. Each offense or wrong doing requires convincing evidence, circumstantial or material.
Mob rule, Kangaroo Courts etc are rather normal behaviour on this PDB, which is full of people with rather low intelligence and rather simple minds that come to simplistic views. They are also heavily influenced by personal agenda's and grudges. Not forgetting the disgraceful anonymous morons who attack others whilst hiding their own identity. Why do you think we have Judge and Jury? We all have the right to have complaints and charges made against us and heard and defended IN THE PROPER MANNER.
As Jantie and many others on this board are clearly CONVINCED there has been a serious offense committed in relation to the female Zara, then I EXPECT all of those who are SV members and even those who are not, to make a formal complaint, in writing, under their own name and address, to the SV. Surely you would ALL want to do this properly, OR do you prefer to simply slaughter someone's character on this PDB in an unfair and uncivilised manner? As with mob rule or a Kangaroo Court!
Here is the address:
Verein für Deutsche Schäferhunde
Steinerne Furt 71/71a
86167 Augsburg
Germany
Circumstantial evidence needs to be somewhat overwhelming, and there has been too many wrong convictions.
Someone guilty of a crime or wrong doing some years ago, does NOT make them automatically guilty of a wrong doing this year. Each offense or wrong doing requires convincing evidence, circumstantial or material.
Mob rule, Kangaroo Courts etc are rather normal behaviour on this PDB, which is full of people with rather low intelligence and rather simple minds that come to simplistic views. They are also heavily influenced by personal agenda's and grudges. Not forgetting the disgraceful anonymous morons who attack others whilst hiding their own identity. Why do you think we have Judge and Jury? We all have the right to have complaints and charges made against us and heard and defended IN THE PROPER MANNER.
As Jantie and many others on this board are clearly CONVINCED there has been a serious offense committed in relation to the female Zara, then I EXPECT all of those who are SV members and even those who are not, to make a formal complaint, in writing, under their own name and address, to the SV. Surely you would ALL want to do this properly, OR do you prefer to simply slaughter someone's character on this PDB in an unfair and uncivilised manner? As with mob rule or a Kangaroo Court!
Here is the address:
Verein für Deutsche Schäferhunde
Steinerne Furt 71/71a
86167 Augsburg
Germany
by Dog1 on 30 October 2010 - 13:10
Just as I thought. Jantie cannot produce the evidence. If you believed anything written you were sucked in. Look at all the suckers that were sucked in. Your name any your uninformed opinion are permantly posted to all that know the facts.
This is a well known situation that was discussed and addressed by the SV breeding board and again at the main assembly, Bundesversammlung. Jantie may have a letter and may be able produce it., but, that's where the truth in the spin ends.
Zara was xrayed and the breeder did not think the picture was a good picture. Zara was x rayed by another vet and the x rays were sent in. Those x rays were graded a1,a1 by the SV main appraiser.
Zara was then shown in the youth class and when the first vet learned of her result, wrote the letter to the SV expressing his opinion it could not have been the same dog. The SV compared the two x rays and determined it was the same dog, but to assure there was no impropriety; the SV did just what Jantie claims no one would 'dare' do and asked the breeder to get another set of xrays. The third set was taken at the University in Giessen and sent to the SV with the recommendations from the vet at the University. The Universities vet's opinion was between the first two vets opinion. The SV examined all the evidence from the professional opinions and upheld the decision of their main appraiser.
There was no improprieties. There was an investigation. The evidence was presented and evaluated and the situation was dealt with appropriately. That's pretty much the end of the story and we have a beautiful VA female rich in the heritage of Germany.
Jantie has once again spun a conspiracy theory based on bits of information misrepresented and twisted into a dramatic portrayal of something it's not. Once again (I'm not sure how many times this has been) the story is quite different than the truth. Just remember when you read the next post by Jantie, it's for entertainment only.
This is a well known situation that was discussed and addressed by the SV breeding board and again at the main assembly, Bundesversammlung. Jantie may have a letter and may be able produce it., but, that's where the truth in the spin ends.
Zara was xrayed and the breeder did not think the picture was a good picture. Zara was x rayed by another vet and the x rays were sent in. Those x rays were graded a1,a1 by the SV main appraiser.
Zara was then shown in the youth class and when the first vet learned of her result, wrote the letter to the SV expressing his opinion it could not have been the same dog. The SV compared the two x rays and determined it was the same dog, but to assure there was no impropriety; the SV did just what Jantie claims no one would 'dare' do and asked the breeder to get another set of xrays. The third set was taken at the University in Giessen and sent to the SV with the recommendations from the vet at the University. The Universities vet's opinion was between the first two vets opinion. The SV examined all the evidence from the professional opinions and upheld the decision of their main appraiser.
There was no improprieties. There was an investigation. The evidence was presented and evaluated and the situation was dealt with appropriately. That's pretty much the end of the story and we have a beautiful VA female rich in the heritage of Germany.
Jantie has once again spun a conspiracy theory based on bits of information misrepresented and twisted into a dramatic portrayal of something it's not. Once again (I'm not sure how many times this has been) the story is quite different than the truth. Just remember when you read the next post by Jantie, it's for entertainment only.
by Videx on 30 October 2010 - 13:10
I await apologies - however I expect continued assertions of corruption from immoral cowards and clowns on here.
by anderbel on 30 October 2010 - 22:10
Not even going to comment on the accusation on Zaras hips as I dont know the facts, but at the risk of being thought thick why on earth would anyone want to break a dogs tail?It it to stop the tail flying high or some other odd reason?
by Rik on 30 October 2010 - 23:10
anderbel, you are not thick. I have seen many genetic tail faults corrected, always by surgery.
But other times, the fault is something as a knotted muscle or becoming dis-jointed, just as happens in humans. A skilled person can manipulate these type issues and there is nothing wrong with that.
I was so befuddled that anyone could "break" a tail to repair a fault with any degree of accuracy, that I began a communication with one of those present when this happened. I am of the opinion from these communications that there was no intentional breaking.
JMO,
Rik
But other times, the fault is something as a knotted muscle or becoming dis-jointed, just as happens in humans. A skilled person can manipulate these type issues and there is nothing wrong with that.
I was so befuddled that anyone could "break" a tail to repair a fault with any degree of accuracy, that I began a communication with one of those present when this happened. I am of the opinion from these communications that there was no intentional breaking.
JMO,
Rik
by Gustav on 31 October 2010 - 03:10
Things like tails fixed by surgery if it for say curling, or ears that are surgically repaired should be made public by the owner or breeder if the dog is going o be used to procreate. These things are often genetic and will pass from generation to generation.
by TingiesandTails on 31 October 2010 - 03:10
Thanks for your post, Videx. I agree that a complaint should be filed and all available datas should be presented.
by Jantie on 31 October 2010 - 10:10
Hi all, just wanted to add a little background information for my readers.
Everyone by now knows that David Videx Payne is a British breeder and dogfood seller trying to mingle with the top of the SV-scene for years and he is up to his neck in the Business and always defending the SV cause and the related issues.
He would rather change the breed standard, because the market wants huge dogs, than respecting nature and given anatomy with its boundaries (health), as was described higher up in this thread.
He will tell you that the SV Breed Value System is the best in the world, when every insider by now knows it is indeed a mockery.
So one cannot expect a neutral opinion here.
Dog1 (Randy Brent – von den blauen Bergen) pretends to know what has happened, but one should check his credibility. He, as well, is up to his neck in this Business. He is an importer and a broker and tries to mingle with the SV core business as well, at least fanny about with his import quality.
Quote: “Take a look at our accomplishments in the show ring and the superb dogs that make it look easy: Our VA rated adult Greman Shepherd Dogs: VA Puma v d Orangerie, VA Quana v d Zenteiche, VA Xandra v.d. Zenteiche and VA Laola Batu (coowned with David Pank) and VA Ronaldo vom Zellergrund.”
So what can one expect as an explanation from the importer of Quana von der Zenteiche,
the breeder who also bred with Xandra von der Zenteiche (T-litter), or Hellen von der Zenteiche (Y-litter), not to mention being the owner of Elber von der Zenteiche (just offering a quick snapshot here).
He will of course tell you everything he has been told by the breeder in Germany. He is merely his spokesman.
Now, wouldn’t it be fair to talk about a (very) biased opinion?
So please, do pay attention and check who’s talking!
So Randy! As you are so very close to this party and defending his case!:
Invite Mister Christoph Ludwig for a showdown in a neutral Belgian university clinic to x-ray Zara von der Zenteiche. I will bring the HD/ED-specialists.
Everyone by now knows that David Videx Payne is a British breeder and dogfood seller trying to mingle with the top of the SV-scene for years and he is up to his neck in the Business and always defending the SV cause and the related issues.
He would rather change the breed standard, because the market wants huge dogs, than respecting nature and given anatomy with its boundaries (health), as was described higher up in this thread.
He will tell you that the SV Breed Value System is the best in the world, when every insider by now knows it is indeed a mockery.
So one cannot expect a neutral opinion here.
Dog1 (Randy Brent – von den blauen Bergen) pretends to know what has happened, but one should check his credibility. He, as well, is up to his neck in this Business. He is an importer and a broker and tries to mingle with the SV core business as well, at least fanny about with his import quality.
Quote: “Take a look at our accomplishments in the show ring and the superb dogs that make it look easy: Our VA rated adult Greman Shepherd Dogs: VA Puma v d Orangerie, VA Quana v d Zenteiche, VA Xandra v.d. Zenteiche and VA Laola Batu (coowned with David Pank) and VA Ronaldo vom Zellergrund.”
So what can one expect as an explanation from the importer of Quana von der Zenteiche,
the breeder who also bred with Xandra von der Zenteiche (T-litter), or Hellen von der Zenteiche (Y-litter), not to mention being the owner of Elber von der Zenteiche (just offering a quick snapshot here).
He will of course tell you everything he has been told by the breeder in Germany. He is merely his spokesman.
Now, wouldn’t it be fair to talk about a (very) biased opinion?
So please, do pay attention and check who’s talking!
So Randy! As you are so very close to this party and defending his case!:
Invite Mister Christoph Ludwig for a showdown in a neutral Belgian university clinic to x-ray Zara von der Zenteiche. I will bring the HD/ED-specialists.
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top
