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by Uber Land on 26 November 2010 - 21:11
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/classifieds/112022.html
is the above dog correct to the SV standard and to the new change for the topline? are they going to change the standard to allow for this rear too?
is the above dog correct to the SV standard and to the new change for the topline? are they going to change the standard to allow for this rear too?
by Abby Normal on 26 November 2010 - 23:11
And people get up in arms when the GSD is called a 'frogdog' ??????
The 'hinged back' look seems to be becoming more common again, I thought it was being 'addressed' quite some time back. It was quite apparent in a number of dogs in both the German and British Sieger Shows this year. Not conformation that I would strive for.
So, we still don't know what the topline changes are?
The 'hinged back' look seems to be becoming more common again, I thought it was being 'addressed' quite some time back. It was quite apparent in a number of dogs in both the German and British Sieger Shows this year. Not conformation that I would strive for.
So, we still don't know what the topline changes are?
by Sunsilver on 27 November 2010 - 01:11
I'm just curious to know what people are calling a hinged back, or broken topline.
Is this it?
Is this it?
by Scarlet Akai on 27 November 2010 - 01:11
bazza
To me a slope is just a diagonal line. or something that has incline... /
"not excessive as seen in the USA" says to me that the problem here was the degree of the slant.
Are you implying that roaching is within the standard or just that the GSD standard does not call for a table top level back? If the latter I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you.
To me a slope is just a diagonal line. or something that has incline... /
"not excessive as seen in the USA" says to me that the problem here was the degree of the slant.
Are you implying that roaching is within the standard or just that the GSD standard does not call for a table top level back? If the latter I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you.
by Abby Normal on 27 November 2010 - 08:11
Hi Sunsilver
The dog in the second picture illustrates it best. There is a visible 'break' in the topline. Though I really don't care for the construction on either dog.
The dog in the second picture illustrates it best. There is a visible 'break' in the topline. Though I really don't care for the construction on either dog.
by noddi on 27 November 2010 - 09:11
i totally agree with yu AbbyNormal.However i would like to see the animals in the flesh.i actually attended the British Sieger this year on the Sunday(Adult classes)and have also seen most of the top animals at various shows thru,out the year up to said sieger show and in my opinion the toplines on most are correct.One really should not make assumptions from photos,toplines can and are distorted by the way handlers stand the animals.My girlie(imo)had the correct topline,she has been placed(top 5 places at champ.shows)in large,top quality classes,being beaten by some of the top ones at the B.S.show.she has won/been placed under all types of judges.i have sometimes cringed at the photos taken of her when she,s won 1st place at shows which have appeared in our gsd.nat.magazine.Carole S.P.S.It should read has the correct topline.typing error.
by Pretorian on 27 November 2010 - 13:11
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I believe this guy is a good showline dog. And that is how i would like my dogs to be.
by noddi on 27 November 2010 - 13:11
Pretorian,that photo is spot on.that is wot i would consider to be the correct topline.my bitch has a topline exactly like that,but in some photos she looks hunched up,i wouldnt say she had a hinge in her back,but certainly looks more rounded than she is.Thats why i,d rather see the dogs in the flesh.AbbyNormal,are yu accessing your views on some of the dogs placed at the german/british sieger shows from the photos in the sieger supplements given by the weekly dog papers????have yu seen the dogs in question ,actually in the flesh????Carole S.
by Abby Normal on 27 November 2010 - 21:11
Hi Carole
I am not just going from photo's! I gather your girl is getting on now, so she wouldn't have been subject to some of the more extreme developments in the structure that have occurred in the last 5-6 years.
I continually hear that the dogs are only this way because of the stack. It's really not true. Look at some of the video of the German Sieger this year. Look at some of the 'hinge backs' shown in the gaiting rounds. The recent debate of the standard agrees on one thing, in movement the back should be level. The fact of it is, due to the shape of the spine, and the overangulation, some of these dogs cannot show the appropriate flexion in the back. Germany are now investigating back problems.
Even better, look at some of the dogs (if not all) in the walk in those videos, especially viewed from the rear and tell me that those dogs have sound movement.
I watched a very well known UK dog relaxed in the stand, just standing doing nothing, not in the ring - and he looked roached and uncomfortable. For me that completely dispelled the argument that it's all in the stack. Stacked or not, there should be no visible break in the topline. To be honest, I have seen dogs at some of the shows that make me cringe. Seems like I am out of step with most 'showline' enthusiasts. On the other hand, I have yet to see a working line dog that made me wince at it's structure.
I am not just going from photo's! I gather your girl is getting on now, so she wouldn't have been subject to some of the more extreme developments in the structure that have occurred in the last 5-6 years.
I continually hear that the dogs are only this way because of the stack. It's really not true. Look at some of the video of the German Sieger this year. Look at some of the 'hinge backs' shown in the gaiting rounds. The recent debate of the standard agrees on one thing, in movement the back should be level. The fact of it is, due to the shape of the spine, and the overangulation, some of these dogs cannot show the appropriate flexion in the back. Germany are now investigating back problems.
Even better, look at some of the dogs (if not all) in the walk in those videos, especially viewed from the rear and tell me that those dogs have sound movement.
I watched a very well known UK dog relaxed in the stand, just standing doing nothing, not in the ring - and he looked roached and uncomfortable. For me that completely dispelled the argument that it's all in the stack. Stacked or not, there should be no visible break in the topline. To be honest, I have seen dogs at some of the shows that make me cringe. Seems like I am out of step with most 'showline' enthusiasts. On the other hand, I have yet to see a working line dog that made me wince at it's structure.
by Uber Land on 28 November 2010 - 00:11
a good handler can hide many faults in conformation on a dog thru grooming and thru how they present the dog (stacking, tightness of lead) but it is very hard to hide faults once that animal starts to move. if the back in arched in movement, then even if it looks normal in stance, it is still not correct.
no matter what speed the dog is gaited, fast or slow or a walk, the dog should maintain a firm, level (not hinged or roached) topline.
no matter what speed the dog is gaited, fast or slow or a walk, the dog should maintain a firm, level (not hinged or roached) topline.
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