Was 2011 a good Sieger Show or a Bad Sieger Show? - Page 2

Oops,brain fart. I meant to say kudos to Jaci vom Eichenplatz on her VA1 placement ! But,for the record,her mother Alisha is awesome too!!! Going to take my medication now,lol.

dslerner I quite agree with you that this tired old post is wheeled out every year and I have seen and debated it many time in my fortyone years in this breed. One reason for bringing this out again and posing the questions that I have is for novices and newcomers who may like to improve their knowledge by following and, if possible, engaging in the debate. They are the future guardians of the breed and they have to learn the best way they can.

Although I started in the English showlines I turned to the German way over thirty years ago. When I came into the breed there were only a handfull of German dogs around in the UK. I have bought dogs from Germany and trained for the Schh, taken females to Germany for mating and shown the offspring. I have also trained dogs for other people and handled at shows. I have also been a member of the SV for many years.

I have also commented on the prescriptions that you mention on this database and other places. I did not expect many people to respond to the post bit I did think that there would be one or two that would have some sensible input which, maybe, someone would get some benefit from.

Instead of coming on here to “have a go at me” why do you not make sensible comment on perhaps just one of the questions that I posed in my original post. I am sure that the readers would be interested on something positive that you can contribute.

By the way I did notice your slip regarding the Siegerin but I knew that you would get there eventually given enough time

Mackenzie

 

Mackenzie
I am one of the 171 that viewed, but don't feel I can comment as I haven't seen footage of all the dogs yet. I hope the lady that posted all her videos from last year does the same this year, that was brilliant and so useful.  On genetics and lines I am not particularly good, I tend to listen to a friend of mine who is amazing on pedigrees and genetics, and is deeply troubled by the 'genetic' bottleneck.  I did notice someone on another thread give an opinion that the spread this year was addressing this, but with the names mentioned I was not so sure, but will respect other's more knowledgeable opinions on this.

Yes, it is a debate that in one form or another happens every year, but I think it is one that should happen every year. Otherwise it's too easy tp slip into the groove of believing that indeed everything in the garden is rosy when it obviously is not, by the SV's own admission. It's too easy to keep looking the other way. What I keep hoping to see is the high placings being given to dogs with less angulation, and less curvature in the spine (resulting ultimately in an overall improvement in the rear end and it's function and stability). Two areas the SV has historically pledged to address in the area of conformation.  I would also like to see some more imaginitive breeding than just having as many VA's or V's in a pedigree as possible JMPO.

Working ability and confidence should always be in the forefront IMO. I did notice the level of performance of the females in the Gebrauchshund class, which is very disappointing.  It's a bit of a bugbear of mine, and I feel less and less importance is being placed on it by many who have influence over what is being bred.  There was a thread a while back with a video of some of the dogs that backed off or actually ran away in last year's SS, and it was truly sad to see.

Mackenzie,

  I did'nt come on here to "have a go at you" although it certainly appeared with your initial post that that is what you were looking for. Maybe it's just the way I perceived it though,given the long history of these posts in the past. Regarding my comments,there was no content that was not sensible. Rather,as the initiator of the thread,if your intention was for newbies to learn(which they could just as easily do by looking up the EXHAUSTIVE multiple threads from the past that say the same thing year after year....)why not simply offer sensible information at the outset?

  Thank you also for your "understanding"(wink,wink) regarding my faux pas with respect to the new Siegerin. Nice try!

Oh,and by the way,it's ds H lerner,not dslerner,since we're now splitting hairs:)
See how these threads quickly devolve? Hence the lack of responses after more than 170 views!
I rest my case. Best to you,Mackenzie.

Hello dsHlerner. I can understand why you thought as you did regarding the original post but you began with preconceived ideas and jumped in before you could see how it would develop which can inhibit possible contributors making an early initial response. I also agree that your content was presented in a sensible manner.

Apart from the newbies I had hoped that more experienced readers would contribute something which could lead to a more free exchange of views. The way things have developed over the past years both show and working people have anatomical problems which need to be addressed. Also, with the show dogs their development in Germany could not be achieved to become the modern show dog in so short a time without some very close inbreeding, including incest matings or, fake pedigrees. The most striking change is the colour of the modern dog. Grey dogs are very rarely seen now in the show dogs whereas the colour is prolific in the working dogs section of the breed together with blacks and bi colours.

In order to keep readers interest up it is better to begin asking a few questions to think about rather than ploughing in with the whole caboodle of ideas which really need to be developed slowly to be more productive.

Perhaps now you will feel that you would like to make a more positive contribution to the subject of the thread.

Best regards

Mackenzie



 

 

Mackenzie,
              Every German Sieger Show is a very enjoyable.I thank the L.G.clubs for the hard work for free.

              I wonder how many of the dogs from the U.K. who had S.G. placings will return in 2012,
              going on the past history not many.

It was a good and sociable Sieger Show. I met many GSD lovers of different countrys and competed with my 2 years old GSD Yoshyi vom Haus Dexel. He got his V at the GHKLR.

Hello Opa

I have always enjoyed the German Shows more than anywhere else.  For many UK exhibitors a higher placing than SG or low V is very hard to achieve.   There is still wide gulf between the UK and the rest although one or two have been successful but usually with a dog of all or mainly German bloodlines.   We also have to be fair to UK exhibitors whose bloodlines are not the best.  The cost of taking dogs to Germany for mating, or, showing is pretty high to do on a regular basis in trying to get better results.

To Rico

Well done.  Having been and "had a go" it would be nice for readers to hear your input on what needs to be done to close the gap on the German dogs.  For some reason, and this has been so for many years now, when using the same bloodlines as the Germans they come up with differing results.  Pwerhaps that is because the gene pool is considerably smaller.


Mackenzie

I did notice on the other thread ( http://pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/forum.read?mnr=139632&pagen=2 ) that Conbhairean Uno got V7. An absolutely splendid achievement and possibly the highest ever placing by a British bred dog (?). It doesn't totally surprise me mind as Heather has been consistently producing excellent dogs with splendid movement & structure along with a good deal of character.

I did notice that Remo the VA1 dog is of a correct size and is line breed on Hill vom Farbenspiel who, I understand, had a pretty good work ethic. He also appears to have a 'different non fashionable' pedigree. 

Ustinov vom Romerland is 5-5 line bred on Jeck, both Nino & Peik have 'different' pedigrees also.

So perhaps there is a conscious move (albeit slow) away from both the bloodline bottleneck & lack of character. 

Just my thoughts with my limited knowledge and constructive criticism most welcome.

AandA

Good positive and insightful post AandA, that type of information needs to be pointed out instead of defensiveness....Bravo!