Was 2011 a good Sieger Show or a Bad Sieger Show? - Page 5

I am aware that a few show people in the UK have used Neck v d Wolfen, whose name I picked out of the air from remembering a photo that I had seen when he first came to the UK. He seemed to me to be an ideal example to promote the idea of looking to the working dogs to improve the character and workability of our breed. There are other Neck’s out there and available at stud. I am also aware that, not just in the UK but worldwide, breeders will see this as a retrograde step but sometimes we have to step back in order to come forward.

It is fair to note that the majority of breeders worldwide have never trained a dog beyond the needs of the showring. It is, therefore, no surprise to me that with none, or very little, training experience there is little appreciation of the true worth in assessing our dogs temperaments. The adequate training of our dogs gives us the insight to the strengths and weakness’s of the animals together with the enormous satisfaction in being able to bond and properly control them in all conditions. It makes for a complete dog and enhances our own individual status.

It is also clear from this thread, which has been conducted so far in a polite and meaningful way, that the show breeders have contributed very little in an informative way to improve the current faults that we see today. As I see it, unless these people do contribute, no real progress will be made towards improvement and, we must remember that this group worldwide produce the majority of dogs in the world.

Mackenzie

 

It's a big subject, and both sides have indicated quite vehemently that one line should not be 'sullied' by the other, since both perceive that they have the correct dog now. 

To break it down to a smaller question - do either show or working breeders acknowledge what you refer to as 'current faults' ? 

The showing system (in Germany esp) does not seem to allow for any type of dog outside the current mould to progress. Therefore, if some breeders are incorporating some mix of SL/WL - where do they go to show off that dog, and what happens when they do?  The opportunity for a firm change of direction which could be introduced by the SV historically (Klodo an obvious example) appears to have been lost, since there are no alternatives to the type.

At least that is how I understand it, but I am willing to be educated in the finer points of the SV & the Sieger and it's ability/desire to influence.  On a personal level I mourn the lack of even a little variety in type today.

It is accepted that there is a big difference between many of the working dogs and show dogs in their appearance. Colour being the obvious difference since Hermann Martin decided that grey was no longer acceptable. There was never any satisfactory explanation, as far as I know, as why that should be. However there are more working dogs who are anatomically very good and, certainly good enough to be used in a mating, if breeders take the trouble to look. Also, and importantly, there are many showline dogs used in the breeding programme which carry many serious faults but this is overlooked by the showline breeders e.g. size, character, unsoundness and epilepsy. The working people are also guilty of this regarding size and soundness to some degree but the character and work ethic for this section takes preference over breeding to the standard, and therefore, it is understandable why the show dogs are not considered for their matings because of character and workability weakness‘s. It is interesting to note that so many working dogs are grey, bi-colour and black.

The whole world follows Germany but they are experiencing the same difficulties. They may be seeking alternatives but the inbreed that has taken place over the last thirty years cannot be reversed overnight. Also, there is the commercial side that has surfaced and this is holding back any meaningful change. Someone, somewhere has to bite the bullet and extend their breeding programme to search for the alternative breeding families. I think that there is a need to understand the breeding families more and, how they come together, rather that keep using the next top dogs who are producing more of the same.

Mackenzie

 

Here it is another link to our second video from SV BSZS-2011 with protection service of V1-V20 (14 out of) males.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koSX4tPKuQY

Irina I have seen and enjoyed your videos in the past and those that I have seen this year, however, would you please advertise them on your own thread or elswhere as they have nothing to do with this thread.  The result is that it is detracting from the subject matter here.

Many thanks

Mackenzie

O'k!

Thankyou Irina, I appreciate your co-operation.

Many thanks

Mackenzie

Ab Nor, There’s a Neck v d Wolfen son bred by Mascani doing pretty well in the show ring in Ireland.