Was 2011 a good Sieger Show or a Bad Sieger Show? - Page 6

It is good that someone has come forward with information on the use of Neck (a working line male) to a showline female. It is a pity that it was not the breeder who must be congratulated on the mating. It would also be interesting to hear the thoughts behind taking the decision to do this. We are not here to castigate or criticise the breeders decision but to learn something from the experience if the breeder is willing to share the information.

Mackenzie

 

 

Mark3
I dont know where you are getting your information from but the Neck Wolfen son you are referring to isnt doing particularly well in the show ring in Ireland. I have friends who send me all the catalogues from the shows & indeed I have seen this dog in the flesh.Without being to critical as I believe the people that  own him are some of the nicest people you could meet at the shows, the dog is too fine ,too compact & lacks forward reach & hind thrust.

Personally I think it is time for people to accept that show dogs are not working dogs & vice versa.Although there are some exceptions

NO FEAR this is for your benefit. I hope the owners don't mind me posting this photo. He is just 12mths old, not posed, free standing what more do you expect from a twelve month old male. Before you say anything yes I do have a Neck puppy who is SL/WL, all who have met her know she has an excellent temperament/character and a very good work ethic
 

No Fear,
I think you are right, the sport world and working world has accepted that they are different, that's why you don't see them often in these venues where opinion is not as important as performance.

What we have is one breed and that is a working breed which, unfortunately, has been allowed to divide.   Why should the show people degrade the breed from it's origins as a working dog?    Remember that show breeders are using dogs with serious faults and decrying the working side for what they see as breeding from dogs with serious faults but not recognising their own failings.

Mackenzie

MacKenzie,

I did post my reasons for using Neck vd Wolfen on the forum around the time of mating - June 2010, I have been training my dog - Mascani Ikon with the help of some good trainers in the UK to acheive SchH1. I have really, really enjoyed learning new skills and the incredible bond that come from working in partnership with my dog in a way that I have only touched on before.
As a breeder, I am always interested in trying to improve on each generation and became engaged in looking for a dog which might give me increased "work ethic" alongside my showlines. I chose Neck because he has good conformation as well as working background and having spent time with him was pleased to find a dog who loves to work but is full of fun and easy going - most of my puppies go into companion homes and I was keen not to use a dog who's puppies would be too much for "pet" owners to manage.
The pups in this litter are now a year old, some are in pet homes and some are in working homes. They have superb temperaments and are a  very good looking bunch. I did keep the only bitch from the litter until she was 8 months old but found that I did not have enough time to concentrate on her whilst I was spending so much time with Ike and so she went to a home who did have time for her.

No Fear

Mascani Ludwig (Rory) won his class at SKC last month and was Best Puppy In Show in Ireland a few weeks earlier. He is tending to do better under "middle of the road" judges - probably not quite as typical a show dog as others. I would disagree that Rory is too fine - like his mother, he is going to be a medium size dog but from what I saw his substance was sufficient. compact - yes probably agree there - it could change he is only 12 months old but it may not - there are no perfect dogs! I also disagree that he lacks reach and hind thrust - Rory is very much loved by his owners and in particular their 17 year old daughter is enjoying immensely handling him - I am quite sure that if he was not being handled by his owner then a different picture would be presented on the move but some things are more important than winning!
 

Having embraced working lines once, I will continue to incorporate good ones when I wish into my breeding programme in an attempt to breed sound all round GSDs . This is not about having sound temperaments as I have been breeding for 17 years and I am very happy with the temperaments of the puppies I have bred but it is about increasing "work ethic", avoiding exaggeration of conformation and moving away from "bottleneck bloodlines" I will probably always be a "show" person first but I would love to have a show dog that impressed my working friends too!

Shirley

Obviously I am biased but I love his head.....
Many of the show people at SKC were very complimentary about Rory - especially his head and colour

Why would anyone spend years to correct the temperment and comformation faults in S/L's by breeding them to W/L's? Why not just find good W/L's and promote what's already out there and move forward? This reinventing the wheel crap drives me nuts.