Milo's Necropsy Report - Page 19

"And it's totally selfish to think anyone should be allowed to have a GSD that isn't the type that a tiny group of sports dog people like. Thanks GSDPACK."

I'll tell you what's selfish...and arrogant...and that's the "this is a free country and I can breed any kind of GSD that I want to" attitude.  That lack of a sense of doing what is right rather than what is convenient combined with a total lack of any sense of civic responsibility is exactly what is wrong with this country...and the breed.

You need to get a grip.  Virtually every litter from proven dogs will produce a spectrum of pups, few of which will be appropriate for top levels of sport or law enforcement.  The rest are typically sold as pets.  You seem to be suggesting that somehow, no training or temperament testing or proof of breed worthiness somehow produces better dogs than some training or temperament testing or proof of breed worthiness.  Do you have any idea how asinine that sounds?  How is doing nothing better than doing something.

"I'm done posting for a while cause this stuff is just too weird."

Good because you have no idea what you're talking about and people like you encourage people to buy puppies from people like her: http://www.raebark.info/ , a known puppy mill in Indiana, who also doesn't find it necessary to do any training or temperament testing with her dogs and whose animals, out of the public eye, live in squalor and serve only to provide her income.

Please educate yourself about the breed before you come back so that you can provide logical rather than emotional commentary and, by all means, take your Midol because my position on this issue hasn't changed for decades and it isn't going to.

Peace out.

PS. As it relates to Mike's situation, I believe the breeder should have replaced the dog.  She has plenty of pups on the ground all of the time, it would have cost her nothing and it's the right thing to do.  It's an unfortunate situation and should not reflect negatively on all of the breeders who try to do the right thing.  That it put money into the pocket of a breeder who doesn't is a travesty.



 

It boils down to what a dog does and what a breeding dog is.  a dog that is being bred should be tested and pressured.  You guys think it's all about biting, but you can tell a ton about a dog by it's bite behavior that has absolutely NOTHING to do with biting or it's propensity to bite or not bite. 

There are a lot of things and holes in temperaments you can miss in a dog by not putting them thru this pressure or testing.  I'm not giving people a pass that use the test as a bullshit meter, but just because there are those that lack in some areas doesn't make the test any less valid.

You can find all sorts of dogs doing all sorts of things and they mostly all have handlers that love them for what they are, good.  That's how it should be.  BUT if you are breeding dogs, there is a standard and one that should be upheld.  It's there because people more wise than you understood what it took to make a complete dog, a dog able to do all those things you write about and make them consistently.

the biggest reason we have so many shit shepherds out there today is because people either pay lip service to the standard or ignore it all together.  I've met plenty of good breeders that pressure and test their dogs and make breeding decisions accordingly and it shows. Dogs with high intelligence,  sound nerves and drive to work all day are common.

To paraphrase what zdog is saying...we shouldn't simply abandon the tests we use to establish breed-worthiness because, by virtue of exceptional training, handling, grooming...whatever...they can be circumvented.

I hope I got that right, zdog.

This conversation is especially interesting to me because whatever our differences, the real dog people...working and show lines...agree...doing nothing with your dogs is never an acceptable option to doing something with them...and that something should be something measurable.

 GSDPACK wrote:

 "About a month ago somebody asked me on the phone if there is a line of GSD that does not shed, and bark and is not as active.. "

Yes.  Next time you're asked, tell the person yes.

There IS a line of GSDs like that.  And bonus: they don't poop, either!  Here's a picture of one:

One last post, which really isn't needed because we'll always have the last and most important word: Keith and your supporters, we don't want your kind of GSD. The final word is we won't buy them. The difference is we don't tell you that you can't have your kind of GSD but you go nuts telling us we can't have ours. You spend so much time talking to each other that you have no idea how most people outside the tiny sport dog world think. You can sell your pups to each other. Fine with us. And no Keith we don't want the Raebark GSDs either. Your rant that it's either Raebark or your kind of GSD is a false dichotomy. Look it up. It's something people fall back on when they haven't got an intelligent argument.

As for illogic and irrational emotionality, Keith you take the prize. You can't stay on topic, you make up crap the other poster never said and argue against that, you dodge good points instead of responding to them, you rudely insult the poster instead of talking about what he said, you wail about how people who don't want your kind of GSD are ruining the county, you present yourself as the savior of the GSD and then call others arrogant. But the high point was your "take your Midol" crack in your 23:06 post. Do you always figure that someone who argues logically and to the point with you must be a woman having her period? That's your idea of logic. Your kind of posts are the reason PDB forums are so widely and rightly seen as cesspools. I thought the moderaters had done some cleaning up. My mistake.

I am done, and no beetree I'm not leaving with my tail between my legs. I'm pulling my foot out of this cesspool and spending my time doing something worthwhile.

Go have some fun, JonRob, you've earned it!           

i was going to try to make one more post, but decided the heck with it. Keith and his cronies won't listen anyway, and I've got a dog here who needs to have her obedience tuned up, then a good game of fetch to satify her nearly insatiable ball drive. Then, early to bed, so we can do a bit of tracking tomorrow morning. 

BTW, I just saw a WONDERFUL episode of Dogs With Jobs on TV tonight. It was about a GSD who does SAR, and has worked earthquakes in Mexico and Turkey. In Mexico, he refused to give up, even after 10 days. His handler was smart enough to listen to him, and as a result, they rescued two women who'd been buried for 10 days!

BTW, he's an American showline.

"Your rant that it's either Raebark or your kind of GSD is a false dichotomy. Look it up. It's something people fall back on when they haven't got an intelligent argument."

While you're attempting to make yourself look, "intelligent," you might want to go back and read through some of your own posts, ask yourself whether or not you might come off as insulting and then read up on, "actor–observer asymmetry."

"But the high point was your "take your Midol" crack in your 23:06 post. Do you always figure that someone who argues logically and to the point with you must be a woman having her period?"

LOL...actually, I assumed you are a man; it's hard to tell with those of you who lacking the courage to stand behind your convictions using a real name. 

"Your kind of posts are the reason PDB forums are so widely and rightly seen as cesspools. I thought the moderaters had done some cleaning up. My mistake."

My "kind of posts" always put the best interests of the dogs and the breed first.  There typically is not a lot of admonishment associated with doing so on a dog forum.

Boy, who would have thought that a post about the cause of death of Little Milo would lead to this? I imagine Mike must be feeling pretty well beaten down by now - his puppy is dead and the joy of getting his new puppy  is now replaced with concern that he has made another bad choice.