Milo's Necropsy Report - Page 4

We'll see how ethical they are if they breed the same two dogs again, won't we?

Sorry for your loss ,  I agree with Hexe very informative post.

For whatever it's worth, the sire Tony is not listed on the breeders website under their breeding males. Also, the dam Blair is for sale. The ad says " Blair can be sold into a family companion home  "....

It does not appear that the breeder is intending of breeding them again..

Mcap,,just breaks my heart every time I think of your loss,,such sadness,,

Hex,,good post,,

Did the breeder even own the sire to begin with, or was he simply a dog that was used over their bitch, Blair?  'Cause in April 2011, when he was V4 in the working dog class @ Altenstadt, Bavaria, it looks like he was owned by someone named Hermann Huttel...I'm sure that Milo and Rocco's litter wasn't the first one he'd sired before he was brought into the US (he's currently @ Hokschhaus GSDs-- http://hokschhaus.com/males/tony/-- and he's a beautifully built dog, and the dogs behind him are well-respected in the show world).

It also appears that Blair had three litters prior to the one Milo and Rocco are from, but sired by different males. It's entirely possible that the other three breedings didn't produce anything unusual, especially since I notice that the breeder indicates they kept several of this bitch's daughters back for themselves.  Milo and Rocco's father, interestingly enough, has NO linebreeding in the first five generations of his pedigree; Blair has a typical degree of linebreeding, but the combination of her and Tony was still a relatively 'open' pedigree, with line breeding on 2 dogs found in the 4th and 5th generations--not an extreme amount in the least.

In other words, there's nothing about this mating that shouts 'beware! trouble ahead!' when you look the lineage over...  If I had a full sister to Milo and Rocco's mother, would I choose to breed her to Milo and Rocco's father, knowing what we have learned at this point in time?  No, I wouldn't, because I wouldn't want to risk the bitch having the same genetic hand as her sister, knowing how that combined with Tony's genetic cards in this instance...but by the same token, bred to a different male with a different background, it's likely as not that the resulting pups would all be fine, just as it would appear Blair's previous litters had been. (I don't have a full sister to her, nor do I have any breeding dogs, for that matter.)

So, GSD DEFENDER, while I would expect a breeder to NOT repeat a pairing that produced pups with allergies or heart conditions or any other maladies that can't be hedged against with testing and screening, there's nothing unethical about continuing to use one or both dogs for breeding with partners of *different* lineages if they've shown themselves to produce sound, healthy offspring with other lines.

It's all a crapshoot, and even the best breeder in the world has limited control of the shuffling the genetic deck of cards is going to get from any given pairing.  Add to this the suspicions as to the effects that chemicals in the environment may have on the genes in an individual creature, and you have circumstances that are beyond the reach of mere mortals such as us...such as breeders are, too.

But I'm still so very saddened for both Milo's loss and Rocco's difficulties, Mike...even knowing it's a crapshoot doesn't make it hurt any less. 

As Mike posted above Sire/Dam, copy and paste at yahoo.com, follow those links and Tony X  Blair 2011 apppears on the website, is that what you used in your research? 

Here's the linebreeding on Blair. Too much linebreeding/inbreeding can affect the immune system, resulting in immune-related disorders. And allergies fall into that category!  3-3 on Urus? NOT a good idea!


I will say the breeder was obviously aware of the problem, because they chose a lesser-known stud, which had no linebreeding at all within 5 generations to breed her to. That was a very wise move, but it obviously didn't work.

Linebreeding - 5 generations 5 - 5............................................. in VA1 Zamb von der Wienerau 5 - 5............................................. in VA1 Jeck vom Noricum 5 - 4............................................. in VA5 3XVA1(HOL) Shanto's Xano 4 - 4............................................. in V Verena von Batu 5 - 5............................................. in V28 Maxi von Batu 4 - 4............................................. in VA1 (I) Hobby vom Gletschertopf 5 - 5............................................. in V Quitta von der Ehrenfeste 5 - 4............................................. in VA10 1997 BSZS Jasmin von der Zenteiche 3 - 3............................................. in VA1 Ursus von Batu 4 - 3............................................. in VA Nero von der Zenteiche

 

Linebreeding is only as harmful or as good as the genepool of the dogs on which the breeding was based. It causes nothing.

Whether or not the breeder knew that there were potential health problems is something we will never know for sure. Years ago I had a litter with 2 severely dysplastic puppies, so bad that they had no sockets and had to be put down. One of the buyers circulated the rumor that I was breeding dysplastic dogs and no one should ever buy a dog from me. That was spun around and ended up suggesting that I used dysplastic dogs in my  breeding program.  Things went down the toilet for me from that day forward. It took me years to recover from those falsehoods. I don't assume anything about other breeders' choices.

Here's a pic of Milo's brother Rocco.  It's been a long 10 days for him, but he is finally starting to "be himself" again.

He's really a beautiful puppy!

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this to you or not, but I would be suspicious of a breeder who would sell a buyer 2 dogs of the same age at the same time. The danger is that the dogs will bond to one another more than their human family. GSD breeders usually warn buyers that it is not a good idea. Also, wasn't little Milo a longcoat too? I owned a coat myself and the grooming was almost never ending to keep him looking nice. I don't think I'd want to have to groom 2 longcoats.

Sun silver, why not 3-3 on Ursus ? Just curious. Thanks. Blitzen, good point.