Linebreeding on VA2 Hill??? - Page 1

I am only curious to hear from you who have had experience with breeding...I am wondering how bad, or good, would a linebreeding of 3-5,5 on Hill v. Farbenspiel be? He is known to bring very good qualities but I havent heard of his faults as of yet. So would you perform a breeding like this? I am trying to learn more in the process Thanks

The head and muzzle some dogs are narrow ,the saddle part fade out early.

What is it that you like about Hill you would want to capture in a linebreeding?

Thanks for your input Petoasis! and Dog1, I like the Hill line because it has been known to produce good working ability and pigment also. I have a Remo daughter so she carries the line. I did a mating check with a stud I know of (I am not breeding yet, I did it out of curiousity but I do like the male's pedigree) But I am wondering if that would be too much Hill in a pedigree?

Known where?

In my personal experience Hill is known for excellent working qualities.
Let's take a look at Hill's background in the first 6 generations:
3/5 on Cello
3 rd generation - Ulk Arlett
4 th generation - Zamb Wienerau
4th + 5th  - Fedor Arminius
5 x in 6 generations - Q litter Arminius who's father line was Canto free
2 x in 6 generations - Uran Wildsteiger Land who's father line was Canto free
(while the vast majority of dogs today have Q's and Uran they are no long this close up in the pedigrees and they were half brothers through Palme, who even though she carried Canto she did have Mutz)
Lasso di val Sole is another Canto free dog within the 6 generations, who also produced good work
I also see some "A" litter Kleinen pfahl who are VERY well known for producing working qualities.

In summary, I see many good work producing dogs close up. Even though he does have a significant amount of Canto in the overall picture, there is also a significant amount of Canto free. The known good producers are much closer than any of the bad. I believe he has far less Canto than most top show dogs and much of the good old lines up closer than most.

 But there is still the mother's part of the equation, and no one line can overcome all weaknesses. I have had hands on on many Hill progeny that have very impressive work. Far too many to not take note. I personally have some and have also seen them produce it. I would agree though that the Hill line does tend to produce narrow heads and muzzles, although I have not seen the fading saddle as a problem in this line personally. In fact, the opposite, as far as pigment goes! Really deep red and intense black. This does not seem to be a bad combination for line breeding as the vast majority of it is pretty far out. If the female has a large head and is known for producing large heads then the chances for not ending up with small headed males is good. But also, if it's not a direct Hill son or daughter, and the other part of the pedigree has significant Canto, I believe I can see the Canto line taking back over even with a 3/5/5 on him. So check out all aspects of your pedigree and then make your decision.  
Debby

If it's 'known' there should be many examples. It takes many examples to be 'known'. Can you name a few dogs linebred on Hill that are accomplished in the working arena?

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer djc! You gave a very good and thorough explanation and foodfor thought. And I love reading this kind of info. Even though my female doesnt have Hill so close up in her pedigree she does have all those qualities, she would probably do even better if I would put more time and work into her. I am so highly pleased with her. Here is her pedigree: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=706686

I  looked up a pedigree search on Hill and then did a reverse linebreeding on Hill.  That showed a lot of pictures that you could look at to get an idea of what line breeding on Hill might give you.  ecs

Here is an example of what I see in Hill lines: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsLgVf5iHWo
She is 4 months old and full littermate to my male puppy Petro. Here is their pedigree: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1342465
Another that I have personal experience with (and his progeny) is V Eon von Nimbus. There are others but I don't have all of their info to give their full names and my contacts won't help because they say they don't have time for PDB BS. lol 
Again, I am speaking from MY OWN personal experience.
Debby