Return that dog. - Page 13

kitkat3478: Prager-I am very pleased that that is how you feel about dogs.
I agree that your dog should be your dog first. Anything else they can do for you in sport is a bonus.

Prager, you make a lot of assumptions.  My dogs live in the house with me, not in kennels except at times during the day.

All I personally believe is  that the dog should be at first  your friend, companion, your partner in many activities and then  and only then to be a sport dog

And mine are, hence why I can't have multiple dogs.  How many can you have at once that are your companions?  My dogs don't all get along with each other.  Case in point the one that retired with my parents was extremely dog aggressive.

Nevermind I am clearly wasting my breath, better put me on your blacklist.....

Louise

I wouldn't be to concerned Louise.
I'm curious as to how many dogs Prager has in kennels? 
None I'd think if he truly puts them as a companion first.  After all, is kenneling for a breeding animal any better than for a sport animal?

Here's my take....nerves and thresholds should be in sync....if the drive is high I like corresponding nerve to "handle" the drive......if the dog is sharp, I like corresponding nerve to handle the sharpness. Nerve to me is the most important aspect of temperament, having said that I still look at the total dog in terms of functionality and compatibility of parts. I like alert nerve as opposed to dull nerve(now this is semantics to paint a picture, not subject to webster's clinical dissection as some are prone to do...lol), I like to see thresholds be able to be channeled into working elements regardless of the task. I have seen hard low threshold dogs with good nerve that are very stable when boundaries are set....we cannot afford to lose these genetics because of the lack of some to handle these dogs. I have seen dogs with high thresholds that are washed out of clubs because the trainers could not create the spark needed to get adequate performance. But in the end, just like everything else with this breed, the nerves and thresholds should mesh to create a sound functional working dog.

Prager,
As GSDPack said earlier, "This is ridonculous!"
How can you come on this forum and state the opinions you have about sport people re-homing dogs????
You have to be the biggest hypocrite on earth to make some of the statements that you have in this thread!
Are your usual supporters who live and breathe by every one of your words aware of your business practices?
Please see you own web site (http://www.alpinek9.com/AlpineK9SoldDogs.html) for a list of dogs that were raised and trained by someone, many of these dogs lived with a family, many were raised in kennels by your friends (which you seem to want to criticize Louise for doing without even knowing how her dogs live), many are sport dog washouts, and then they were pawned off by you and your cohort, Jiri.
 
Do any of these sport dogs names sound familiar to you? Norbo, Dargo, Grim, Xero, Faro and on and on the list could go!!!
Why were dogs like these sold???
Why wasn't Norbo "The Legend" allowed to live his golden years with those who raised, trained, competed with and "cherished" him???
Please be honest!
They were sold because they were of no use to you and Jiri anymore.
They were sold because they were past the Czech/Slovak breeding age of 8 years old.
They were sold because you made a lot of money when you sold them!!!

It is unbelievable that you can criticize anyone for re-homing a dog.
You and Jiri have made a very financially rewarding career out of doing so!

Please clarify this further Hans,
It's okay for you, the dog broker or breeder, to sell and rehome dogs because of some noble deed you perceive yourself as doing, but, not okay for someone who feels the dog they bought to compete in sport with won't work for the intended purpose.
So, in other words, it's okay to own, breed, sell and rehome dogs when making money is the intended goal, but, it's not okay if the intended goal is high level sport competition (or as you put it, "points")???

What a joke!!!

Prager wrote:
"I would also like to say that there is a ethical difference between selling dog as a breeder or as a broker and dumping a dog because he does not fit your needs. 
 Breeder or broker selling dog;
well someone has to sell the dogs to public and LE agencies and such. Many  sell their  pups and also sell dogs which they train or many , you may call them brokers,  also sell dogs which other's did not want or trained for resale. 
That is morally different from getting rid of dog just because he does not score well in show or competition."

Read that last sentence very carefully.
How much money have you and Jiri made over the years by selling dogs for those exact reasons?
How many dogs has Jiri bought over in the Czech Republic or Slovakia for the equivalent of pennies on the dollar from breeders or trainers because they were washouts and then you and he re-sold those dogs for 4 to 5 times what you paid? Weren't these people dumping their dogs? Where was the morality then?
How many dogs have you and Jiri sold over the years because they did not work out as breeding dogs as you had hoped?

It must be in your head that it is okay when you do it, but, when a sport dog person does it, all of a sudden the dog has feelings and should be loved as a treasured family member.

OGBS these dogs: FYI.:Norbo, Dargo, Grim, Xero, Faro  were  not my dogs . If you want to talk about Jiri you must ask him.
For example ; all my permanent breeding dogs stay with me until they die they are part of my family. They are my companions and my friends. They are not for sale. I have never sold or got rid og one personal dog of mine because he was "crappy". I have never had or seen a crappy dog.  I have slept for several months in 45* F minus or less in the National Forest with my 7 dogs just in my sleeping bag and no tent since it got stolen. It never crossed my mind to get rid of these 7 dogs  in order for someone rent me a house. 
Lowjolly I am sorry but  I was  only using your words. If I was wrong then it is only for that reason.  Non of retired dogs which are in my  kennel are "rotting" or may "rot" there as you  said it is in the case in your   kennel after they retire. That is why you  place them and that is OK in such case rather then "rot" in the kennel and    I have said so.  I would not do it to my personal dog though. But that is me. 

As far as my personal dogs go, all  such  dogs get time in training and socialization and are having personal relationship on higher level then as my  servers  to perform for me  as sport tools.  They are  my friends. All my dogs get  time in kennel and in my home and are taken hiking,  bike rides and play exercises, car rides on regular basis and are socialized daily often several times.  
I have here bunch of dogs which I call lovingly  the old and ugly to prove that and they stay for ever.  They are  retired competition dogs, and former breeding dogs. They are my friends and there is nothing better then an old dog which is also old friend. I have inside of  my house permanently and  on rotation basis every day at least 8 dogs. 
 As far as me or anyone selling dogs?
I have already explained that.   
But obviously some  need to get lesson in Ethics and Morals. 
 Same act may be ethical and moral  in one scenario and in other it may not be. That is not hypocritical! But just proper understanding of life. 
Example : If someone kills someone in self defense or in line of duty as a  Law enforcement officer or civilian protecting others and so on.  - Moral and ethical 
                If someone kills someone to get his money - not moral and not ethical. 
It is the motive  and not necessarily the act itself which makes such act   moral or ethical.  There is no hypocrisy as some may improperly  assume. 
Thus for me selling dog which was purchased form someone who wants to sell their dogs because they did not perform in sport  or selling dog which was risen to be sold to loving family is ethical. For someone  getting rid of a dog just because such personal dog  did not perform well in competition is in my book  not moral or ethical. 
For dog pound to keep dogs in kennel and placing them for a fee which enables them to sustain themselves - Ethical 
For competitor to keep the dog,( besides training session ) 100% in the kennel -  not ethical. 
For police officer replacing a dog which for lack of performance  may get him killed-ethical.
For competitor to get rid of personal dog which loves him just because he does not score as well as the owner likes -  because that makes him automatically "crappy" dog as someone said - not ethical. 
You may have different opinion and that is OK.
Prager Hans
P.S. I would also like to state that many- most  LEOs keep their service dog no matter what and do not get rid of it if they get another one. 

Is it ethical to make money ?
Is it ethical to make money by selling dogs ?
If one is ethical, must one also be moral ?
Does the issue of morals arise due to a human bond with the dog...so is it acceptable to sell if there is no bond with the dog ?

Why do we not have the same emotions regarding pet gold fish, or cattle ?

Is it morally superior to stay in a relationship which is not working ?.

Good questions. 
 Prager Hans

Guddu: Why do we not have the same emotions regarding pet gold fish, or cattle ?

Because animals like gold-fish, cattle, sheep etc., are not companion-ship animals like a horse or a dog or a cat ?