Why can North American GSD breeders never seem to breed world class dogs?? - Page 2

Well let's hear which American blood lines are winning in the show line competitions. From what I know of the "show line" US champions of late they are straight from Europe or first generation progeny on one side of the pedigree or another.  I know if you look at recent IPO and schutzhund champions the Europeans dominate on both sides of the Atlantic.  Hard to find a stud dog in the GSD classifieds section that wasn't just imported??  We are setting the bar pretty low .. no import parents in the dam and sire, no bred female import puppies, no leased European sired in the USA puppies, but grandsires and granddams can all be imports.  Which dog with those credentials has won or placed top 3 in a national GSD competition in the USA. 

Could it be because the judges are all long-time competitors and breeders themselves and that they all know one another, sometimes train together, know the dogs and that virtually any judge at any competition is judging dogs from someone who is also a judge and will be judging their dogs in a different venue a month or so down the road?

bubba, you keep saying prodigy....I believe you mean progeny

You are correct Xeph .. progeny not prodigy .. I will edit if possible

I don't believe shows and trials necessarily reflect superiority....I think West Europe has produced a higher quality of show and sport lines, but I think working dogs are superior to show and sport, and thus the premise is flawed from my point of view. The Eastern bloc has produced better working dogs in past 25 years, IMO. 

Gustav .. I did not leave out the eastern block .. they bred up their bloodlines from what was left after WWII with little help from the other Western oriented European breeders.  My question is why can't North American breeders produce dogs equal in quality to the Europeans??

ummmm. training, training, training. if you drive 50 miles in europe you will pass 20 training clubs. if i drive 50mi i have not yet reached a club....lol. Its not that we are not breeding some world class dogs here. its the amount and quality of training we have and where you have to go to get it. How far would you have to drive to find a world class training helper that has put dogs on the podium bubba ? Now lets add the north american mentality to the equation that.... IF ITS NOT FROM EUROPE..... the few people here in the states who are capable of breeding and training a dog to that level usually wind up selling the dog to someone with a FAT WALLET :-)

Because American breeders do not have to go by any certain criteria for breeding as they do in Europe. Yea it's nice when they do, but some slip by with not doing proper health tests, not pairing dogs properly, breeding too young, not bringing out drives in pups. Lot's of things factor into that. Our training is few and fair between (good training that is). The sports aren't nearly as popular. I know of a few breeders who are truly class acts and produce extremely good dogs, and who own extremely good world level dogs. But for the most part, breeders in the US are in it for the money. It's sad. 

It´s a totally different mentality.
There ARE great dogs on your side of the pond - working- and showlines - and people still import every other day...

There have been a lot of threads

1. about the SV breeding standards and if they are necessary...
2. about " making money" with breeding...
3. about clubs, the distances to get there, and there fees

1. The ASL are a result of ( mostly) purebred German Shepherds, but without any temperament or working ability tests, bred for people looking for pets over decades now.
For me most of these dogs are the living result for breeding a working dog breed without any requirements.
No one outside of Germany is forced to go "the German way" of breeding, but breeding without ANY rules besides conformation leads to a nice pet, not more, not less.

2. I tried to explain several times, but people outside of Europe don´t believe it - at least 95% of the European breeders don´t breed for money, they train and title their dogs, if eveything is fine, they breed, otherwise they don´t. Most of us only own one to three dogs, not more. By following all the rules it´s impossible to make money out of 1 litter or less during the year. Almost all of us, even most of the "big players" do have regular jobs, we earn our money by working, not by breeding dogs.
Outside of Germany people only tend to see the few "famous" kennels, existing for decades. ALL OF THEM started with training and titling, NOT with breeding champions. All of them learned by doing like all the other thousands of breeders over here.
If anyone does have the luck to own a successful stud and is able to make money with it, that´s fine for me, but this is NOT NORMALITY, it´s exception. 
You shouldn´t look at the Siegerschau or Siegerprüfung, but at the thousands of small breeders and training clubs, training and breeding BECAUSE IT`S FUN, not because it´s a way to make money.

3. No club in your surrounding? FOUND ONE! There are enough dogs and dog owners in every single town.....
Rent a piece of land, build up a small cottage, build some hurdles, buy some equipment, and start training!
Don´t pay for trainers and helpers, but help each other.
Some people are good at training, some are good at handling, some are good baking cakes selling them for the club, some are good in administration, and so on...
There is absolutely no reason to pay hundreds of dollars only for training in a club, but it´s work and time.

Back to the States - there are a lot of very good dogs out of very good bloodlines - they only need a chance. A dog doesn´t need to be an international champion for being able to produce good offspring.
Look for stable dogs with good working abilities, fitting within the standard. There might be some in your neighborhood

Okay, this were the words of the silly German woman...

At the end of the day you should take a look at your dog and have fun...
 

let me throw in something to discuss her
maybe because most USA breeders breed names, titles, fame, or the dog they happen to have at home to all their bitches, im visiting USA dogwise since 1989 and seen it over and over
buy a titled son or grandson to so and so and breed the hell out of him till he is out of fashion and get the next one for the next period of time.

to breed and improve you have to match qualities and bloodlines, IMO this is not so much happening overthere

this is not to bash american breeders but to give answer to the question, also there are good breeders also in the USA
I have been driving 10 hours to train or breed a dog so the distance is not making it easyer, but not something you cannot overcome