what so good about a calm full grip?? - Page 5

by zdog on 25 June 2013 - 09:34

zdog Posts: 832 Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 03:38 pm

vk, why not get in a suit, put on a sleeve and work a few thousand dogs.  Then get back to us with your skepticism.  There are plenty of crappy dogs out there that look better than they are because of training in a sport.  There are plenty of "real" dogs that have come out to a sport club and been run off by a simple hold and bark  But I highly doubt either of the 2 dogs in the videos in this thread would do anything other bite harder.  That's what strong dogs do.  There is a lot to be said about the gripping behavior of dogs and how the dog acts in all sorts of non biting situations as well.  It doesn't take long to feel the difference and see it between dogs that bite full and hard and desire to do that over dogs that don't. Thank you, zdog.

a cut to the quick is much favored over a cut to something else much more vulnerable in a thong :)

"vk, why not get in a suit, put on a sleeve and work a few thousand dogs.  Then get back to us with your skepticism....."


that is just a cop out to avoid the question. nice move, must have worked for you before.

I answered your question, what don't you get?  would you like me to upload all my experience to you?  got a usb port?  Grips aren't everything, but Grips matter, for a lot more than points or style.  

thanks

to answer the question, I would say the points answer comes close, I work a lot of dogs from both ends and there are lots  of soft, weak and nervy dogs with calm full grip,
for me a full calm grip is the result of a certain combination of drives in the dog, nothing more and nothing less,
nothing to do with hardness, courage or intellect of the dog
 

I suspect you haven't worked nearly as many dogs as you think.  Turn up the pressure, the weak nervy and soft dogs remain anything but calm, you can see it in their eyes right before they take off or refuse to even engage.  There's a difference between a dog latched onto a sleeve it has learned to bite thru training and making it feel comfortable enough that nothing will happen to it there and a dog that is biting you full and crushing because it thinks it is going to dominate you with that grip.  It has a lot more to do with courage or hardness than you've learned so far.  Keep working 

Calm doesn't mean just hanging on and not moving.  It's a state of mind.  

Is this post about turned up pressure or full calm grips? I have seen countless and taken countless hits from excellent police dogs that when the pressure is turned up will change their grips....doesn't make them less effective because they have already proven themselves. Some dogs maintain full grips when pressure is turned up, many dogs with great dominating and fight drive don't......the effective dog has hard grips full or 3/4 .....and many dogs with full calm grips are not hard .....full grips is not a necessarily requisite for excellent working dog, though we all like to have or see it.

whatever makes you happy Z , but can you tell me in what sport the pressure is really turned up on the dogs
I know dogs with full hard and calm grips, that refuge to engage when something changes or falls down, so weak and or nervy dogs can show full calm grips period.

 

Really?  I think i've said that a few times.  In this thread in fact. But I'll say it again, grips are the be all and end all, but they are important for more than just points.  I highly doubt you've worked countless exceptional dogs and they all change their grips when under pressure.  If that's the case, I say you have yet to work an exceptional dog.  If you have, then you know the dog that just clamps down harder and gives you goosebumps when you fight with him.  You know that dog that stays rock solid and is in fact rock solid in everything and you know the ones that tend to move around more and how they act in other scenerios away from biting.  At least you should have noticed that.

I never said a dog that doesn't bite full and hard can't be an effective police dog.  But I'd bet 100 dollars to your 10 that for every dog I can make move on a grip, they will be less stable overall in other situations away from biting than the dogs that keep calm in the mind and bite harder and don't move.